Friday, May 6, 2016

Peggy Noonan: Trump Was a Spark, Not the Fire

But the media did not make Donald Trump’s allure, his allure made for big ratings. Mr. Trump was a draw from the beginning. If anyone had wanted to listen to Jeb Bush, cable networks would have been happy to show his rallies, too.
When Mr. Trump was on, ratings jumped, but it wasn’t only ratings, it was something else. It was the freak show at its zenith, it was great TV—you didn’t know what he was going to say next! He didn’t know! It was better than everyone else’s boring, prefabricated, airless, weightless, relentless word-saying—better than Ted Cruz, who seemed like someone who practiced sincere hand gestures in the mirror at night, better than Marco the moist robot, better than Hillary’s grim and horrifying attempts to chuckle like a person who chuckles.
And it was something else. TV producers were all sure he’d die on their show. They weren’t for Mr. Trump. By showing him they were revealing him: Look at this fatuous dope, see through him! They knew he’d quickly enough say something unforgivable, and if he said it on their air he died on their show! They took him down with the question! It was only after a solid six months of his not dying that they came to have qualms. They now understood they were helping him. Nothing he says is unforgivable to his supporters! Or, another way to put it, his fans would forgive anything so long as he promised to be what they want him to be, a human bomb that will explode by timer under a bench in Lafayette Park and take out all the people but leave the monuments standing....
The Trump phenomenon itself would normally be big enough for any political cycle, but another story of equal size isn’t being sufficiently noticed and deserves mention. The Democratic base has become more liberal—we all know this part—but in a way the Republican base has, too. Or rather it is certainly busy updating what conservative means. The past few months, in state after state, one thing kept jumping out at me in primary exit polls. Democrats consistently characterize themselves as more liberal than in 2008, a big liberal year. This week in Indiana, 68% of Democratic voters called themselves liberal or very liberal. In 2008 that number was 39%. That’s a huge increase.
In South Carolina this year, 53% of Democrats called themselves very or somewhat liberal. Eight years ago that number was 44%—again, a significant jump. In Pennsylvania, 66% of respondents called themselves very or somewhat liberal. That number eight years ago was 50%.
The dynamic is repeated in other states. The Democratic Party is going left.
But look at the Republican side. However they characterize themselves, a majority of GOP voters now are supporting the candidate who has been to the left of the party’s established thinking on a host of issues—entitlement spending, trade, foreign policy. Mr. Trump’s colorfully emphatic stands on immigration have been portrayed as so wackily rightist that the nonrightist nature of his other, equally consequential positions has been obscured.
In my observation it is a mistake to think Mr. Trump’s supporters are so thick they don’t know his stands. They do.
It does not show an understanding of the moment to say Donald Trump by himself has changed the Republican Party. It is closer to the mark to say the base of the party is changing and Mr. Trump’s electric arrival on the scene made obvious what was already happening.
For this reason among others, I do not understand the impulse of the NeverTrump people to anathametize and shun those Republicans who will not vow to oppose Mr. Trump and commit to defeating him. They have been warned that if they don’t do these things they will not be allowed to help rebuild the party after Mr. Trump destroys it. Conservatives love to throw conservatives out of conservatism; it’s like an ancestral tic. But great political movements should not be run like private clubs. And have the anathemitizers noticed they aren’t in charge anymore? That in the great antiestablishment disruption of 2016 they have been upended, too?....
Finally, can Mr. Trump win? Of course. Uphill but possible. If this year has taught us anything it is what Harrison Salisbury said he’d learned from a lifetime in journalism: “Expect the unexpected.”

143 comments:

rcocean said...

Reagan got elected because of three things:

1) He was anti-communist and strong on defense
2) He was socially conservative
3) He wanted to lower taxes and get the economy moving again.

I don't remember anyone in the 1980s who signed up for useless wars in the Middle east, Affirmative action, illegal immigration, bad trade deals, Amnesty, TARP, or supporting Political Correctness.

That's pretty much what National Review and WSJ call "conservatism". I call it something else.

rcocean said...

We're supposed to be against Trump because he's not in favor of smaller Government. Y'know like Romney, McCain, Dole, Bush I and II, and Ryan.

Somehow we ended up $19 trillion in debt because of guys like Trump. The Republicans/Conservatives had nothing to do with it.

edutcher said...

Ms Noonan is still in love with President Pissy.

She also doesn't think strong borders, sending the illegals back, keeping the Moslems out, an America First foreign policy, or strong trade policy (something Reagan liked are Conservative).

ndspinelli said...

LOL! Trumpaholics loved what Noonan said last week. Man, if you don't drink the Kool-Aid you are "EVIL!"

ricpic said...

Hey Peggy, there's no great mystery, Trump is FOR America. And given the nature of our ruling class that is startling. It is also what drew millions to him the minute he said "I will build a Wall." That bond is now unbreakable. Let GW Bush and W Bush and Paul Ryan withhold their endorsements of Trump (quite shocking after all their talk about Republican loyalty); watch them disappear in the rear view mirror.

rcocean said...

"LOL! Trumpaholics loved what Noonan said last week. Man, if you don't drink the Kool-Aid you are "EVIL!"

Actually, I stopped reading Noonan about 8 years ago when she went ballistic over Palin. Even before then, I was never a fan. She was good on TV in small doses, but her writing is too emotion driven and wordy for my tastes.

Trooper York said...

She sort of explained it correctly. Like an anthropologist. Maybe she can join the safari to Amerika to look at the lower orders in their natural habitat. She is a little long in the tooth to be the ingénue.

But she could be a hell of a Margaret Dumont.

edutcher said...

ndspinelli said...

LOL! Trumpaholics loved what Noonan said last week

We did? Sure fooled me.

But then I haven't read her in 8 years.

Trooper York said...

The cuckservatives still don't get it. Case in point Paul Ryan. I read where he says he will withhold his support of Donald Trump until he comes closer to some of his (Ryans) positions. Rance is panicking and set up a meeting between Trump and Ryan to broker a peace.

Trump should go into the meeting and then come out to the press conference and say:"Speaker Ryan wanted to meet to tell me that he can not endorse me until I move closer to mainstream Republican positions that he holds. Well I will not be for unlimited immigration to steal the jobs of Americans and to import criminals and terrorists. I will not endorse one sided trade deals that destroy manufacturing jobs in states like Wisconsin. I will not be for endless wars to nation build throughout the world so our boys die to force other people to act the way we want them to act and to protect Saudi oil interests. I will never support those things like Speaker Ryan. So since he can not in good conscience support me and the millions of people who voted for me I suggest that he step down as Chairman of the Convention. I sure that Senator Sessions or Ben Carson or Newt Gingrich could step in as loyal Republicans and handle the gavel. Oh and I would also like to announce that I am contributing $1 million dollars to the election campaign of Paul Nehlen and I urge all of my supporters to do the same. That will give Speaker Ryan something to do when he is free this July. Thank you and Lets Make America Great Again."

ndspinelli said...

IIRC, ed criticized Noonan on the last good post Lem made w/ a Noonan column and then spouted the perfect line that sums it up, "I didn't read it." It's like folks who rip a movie and when pushed, admit they didn't watch it.

ndspinelli said...

I see our Howard Beale has had a few espressos.

Trooper York said...

Paul Ryan and Peggy Noonan are everything that the voters who elected Trump voted against. You don't just turn around and embrace them and their views. That is not what this election is about. They are the people we are against just as much as Hillary. They are prime agents of the duopoly.

ndspinelli said...

I read people I like and make it a point to read people I don't agree w/. That's one of the critical thinking skills the Jesuits taught me.

The Dude said...

That covers a lot of ground, say, you cover a lot of ground yourself!

Were you vaccinated with a phonograph needle? You haven't stopped talking since I got here.

You can leave in a huff. Or if that's too soon, you can leave in a minute and a huff.

ndspinelli said...

I'm watching less and less regular TV. But, when I do watch news, I have a loop. I watch CNN, Fox News, Fox Biz, Bloomberg and MSNBC. I also watch Lester because my bride loves him. I saw something that if pushed, would be a good story. They had a piece w/ Cynthia McFadden, a Clinton supporter, interviewing Guccifer. Now, I KNOW he's in a US lockup being questioned by the FBI. Well, this interview was done in Romania. He does say via highly edited translation, that getting into Clinton's server was easy. Certainly a story that should have been run a month ago when this interview was conducted! Anyway, here's the part that really triggered my PI red flag. McFadden does the reporter horseshit leading question, "And you say you hacked into Colin Powell and the Bush emails." I would be willing to bet that's not just a lie by McFadden, but a bold faced FUCKING lie. W never used email and it wasn't around when the old man was prez.

Focus on your game. The game is beating Hillary. I'm going to vote for your lying, buffoon. Or, is your goal to have all drink the Kool-Aid?

Trooper York said...

Great lines. We can get Chris Christie a horn to honk and not let him say anything. And Ben Carson can tap dance.

It's gonna be a great convention!

AllenS said...

I don't watch any news shows, and haven't in about 15 years. All they do is depress me. Can't have that.

Trooper York said...

The Republican Convention is going to be the most entertaining one ever televised. Mr. Trump will make sure of that.

Garey Busey is going to be the Keynote Speaker.

ndspinelli said...

AllenS, Whether it's local or network news, their goal is to SCARE you. They have weather crisis alerts here in San Diego, because it's fucking raining. No shit. I taught a current events class to seniors in Sun Prairie[not that fucking Star Prairie] HS. I would assign groups of kids to watch different network news. They saw that they ran almost the exact stories, sometimes in the same order, and that the word "CRISIS" was used incessantly. I taught kids to think critically, just as I was taught and something kids are not any longer.

ndspinelli said...

I have never left anywhere in a huff. ET VOUS?? You dirty Protestant.

The Dude said...

I wasn't talking to you, Nick. I should have made that more clear.

Why do you want to pick fights? You seem angrier and meaner than me. That's not good.

Trooper York said...

Two big moneybags doners Adelson and Ricketts have just endorsed Trump this morning. As has Rick Perry who was one of the first Never Trump douchebags. So clowns like Ryan will have their marching orders. They will do what their masters tell them to do. Ryan will be endorsing very shortly.

Nobody wants to miss the swimsuit portion of the Republican Convention.

The Dude said...

And just to be clear, those lines were all Groucho quotes from dialogue he had with M. Dumont.

Someone mentions her name, like a Pavlovian dog, I start quoting Groucho.

I shouldn't have to explain that, but clearly cultural literacy is nonexistent here.

Trooper York said...

Not really Sixty. Some of us got it. Just the ones who don't have a different agenda.

I do see Chris Christies a chubby Harpo. I know Trump can order him to just stand there in a funny wig and honk a horn. It will be classic.

ndspinelli said...

My bad, Sixty. I apologize. I need a walk but it's raining and the local news told me to be afraid. I'm going to put on my slicker and walk in the rain. Hopefully I won't melt. Thanks again for the kick in the ass. I learned from coaching a pat on the back is most often the best motivator. But, we all need a kick in the ass sometimes. Your coach K is good @ both.

AllenS said...

Star Prairie doesn't have a high school, Nick. On the good news front, I was reading the weekly New Richmond News, and NR is getting a Taco Bell. How cool is that?

Chip Ahoy said...

Is that whole thing Peggy Noonan?

I don't know because I don't read her.

See what I did there? I read the thing here but I don't read her. And frankly, I don't know where she stops talking and Lem starts, if ever.

The Jesuits taught me that. Bastards about reading, and I mean it. They force you to decide what is worth pursuing carefully and what is worth reading real fast, like this, skip skip skippy skip skip skip along little bunny skip skippy skip done. Test me. Go on, test me. That's what Jesuits taught. They did not teach an agreeable writer is always agreeable.

For example, this bit right here is too media centric to suit me. Media people see Trump as media celebrity. I do not. I view him as annoying Manhattanite New Yorker socialite, real estate person, and I think a lot of flyover types do too. I think that most people don't weight that so heavily as writers and other media do. Perhaps an analogy is helpful. *strikes professorial pose* 4UC, it's like trying to get the sunset time-lapse with the 2.8 50mm, and excellent and sexy lens on it own, crystal clarity, great bokeh, fast, all the rest, is insufficient because its framing is too tight. It leaves too much out. Usually you want tight focus, but here it disappoints.

It assumes all pull and no push. It assumes all awareness comes from media. Just as the donors think and just as anti-Citizens United think that money is everything in politics and how this cycle proved you can throw all the money you like it will not make a difference this time, so too media thinks that it's all the media attention Trump has under his belt, his celebrity, his reality t.v. personality, his Manhattan socialite status that impresses him upon conservative voter awareness this cycle. And both are wrong. It is not money that is central and it is not media attention, even life-long media attention that is central. Not this time.

All I hear through media today, yesterday, and probably for awhile is Trump has an up hill battle. By their precious numbers. Their numbers that have served them so well. Not.

*cues Running Up that Hill* Be running up that road, be running up that hill, be running up that buil-ding. No pro-ah-blem.

I'm Full of Soup said...

What RCocean said at 11:03 was pretty brilliant.

edutcher said...

ndspinelli said...

IIRC, ed criticized Noonan on the last good post Lem made w/ a Noonan column and then spouted the perfect line that sums it up, "I didn't read it." It's like folks who rip a movie and when pushed, admit they didn't watch it

Her opinion means zip to me. IIRC I gave my opinion on the issue of that post, but, after she went all chi chi over Pissy 8 years ago, I don't care what she says. She's always going to try to be on the trendy side. Like someone else you know and love (ahem).

Trooper York said...

Two big moneybags doners Adelson and Ricketts have just endorsed Trump this morning. As has Rick Perry who was one of the first Never Trump douchebags. So clowns like Ryan will have their marching orders. They will do what their masters tell them to do. Ryan will be endorsing very shortly.

Hadn't heard that, but hardly surprised. All the ducks will line up in neat little rows because Adelson and Ricketts don't want to lose their influence on Congress. I figured Ryan was posturing for the camera.

Nobody wants to miss the swimsuit portion of the Republican Convention.

Yes, Melania, Ivana and Ivanka, and Marla should definitely make a better show than Hillary pole dancing for the Demos.

I'm Full of Soup said...

AllenS- I have never eaten at a Taco Bell. I guess I never saw the appeal of that little dog they used to use in their commercials.

Try Fox Business channel for news - it is still pretty good. Neil Cavuto is great IMO.

ricpic said...

Well, I just came in from patrolling my garden, such as it is, and I can say without reservation -- THE WEEDS ARE WINNING!

William said...

"Hillary's grim and horrifying attempts to chuckle like a person who chuckles." That's a pretty good line. A thousand barbs of snark. I don't ordinarily read her, but Noonan knows how to write.........I think Trump is convincingly and authentically pro-American. I'm not sure if that takes precedence over his pro-Trump views, but he's definitely pro American. Hillary is running on an explicitly pro-Hillary platform. Not much ambiguity there. There is no higher ideal than the advancement of the Clnton family interests.

ricpic said...

I'm so culturally illiterate that I thought those three lines (at 12:22) were Sixty's. So you see there's an advantage to slumming amongst the culturally illiterate -- we're laughably easy to impress.

edutcher said...

AJ Lynch said...

Try Fox Business channel for news - it is still pretty good. Neil Cavuto is great IMO.

Cavuto runs his own ship - a guy with cancer and MS probably isn't scared of much.

He also gave Donald trump a platform for many years. A lot of people who will tell you Trump is conservative formed that opinion watching Cavuto.

PS Didn't know you had such a colorful heritage, oopsy. All I have is maybe a highwayman or pirate hanging from the family tree.

The Dude said...

Groucho was my hero, ricpic. Even watched his television show as a youth. Have seen most of the Marx Brothers pictures a number of times. And the word "phonograph" should have been the tell.

As for weeds - BUILD A WALL!!!

No, I mean, get a hoe. No, not that kind...

AllenS said...

Where I live, AJ, if you don't eat Mexican food at Taco Johns or Taco Bell, you don't eat Mexican food. There have been Mexican places that have opened, but they didn't last long. One is left in a little strip mall. The only reason that they are probably open is that they can serve beer. Just doesn't look to appealing. Hard to say if they are even Mexican since I've never been in there. Years ago, the best place for tacos and burritos was run by the Peterson brothers. Really good food, but they couldn't make it work.

I'm Full of Soup said...

AllenS- I am not avoiding Taco Bell. I almost never eat Mexican food. I just don't like it.

chickelit said...

Lem said...Dick Cheney will back Donald Trump

Cheney has tremendous loyalty to the Bush family so that could not have been an easy decision for him. I predict that one or two family members will come out of the Bushes like Dick to lend support as well.

edutcher said...

Cheney sees the big picture.

A Hillary Administration after 8 years of Black Narcissus would be that much greater a disaster for this country.

Time to put personal grudges (or avarice) behind them and keep the eyes on the prize.

chickelit said...

Black Narcissus = Narciso nero in Italian.

Everything sounds better in Italian.

Methadras said...

rcocean said...

We're supposed to be against Trump because he's not in favor of smaller Government. Y'know like Romney, McCain, Dole, Bush I and II, and Ryan.

Somehow we ended up $19 trillion in debt because of guys like Trump. The Republicans/Conservatives had nothing to do with it.


It's called crony capitalism. It's the game that all of these scum buckets play. The whole of DC is nothing buy a giant payola scheme.

Methadras said...

AllenS/AJ,

For the record, taco bell is not mexican food. It isn't even remotely mexican food. The only serious places that you can eat serious mexican food is in San Diego County, parts of Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico and all of these places do it differently. I personally prefer the taco shops in San Diego.

edutcher said...

Major blow to the Libertarians and the NeverTrumpers (is that distinction without difference?):

Rand Paul as well as Perry endorse Trump.

I guess the Powers What Are have spoke.

Methadras said...

Peggy Noonan is the same kind of drunken sot with the pseudo-ephemeral affectation that the other professorial drunken sot blogger is. A meaningless, vacuous, bloaty mcbloatface of their own opinions which mean shit but only to themselves and whoever gets to read their miserable bleatings.

Methadras said...

edutcher said...

Major blow to the Libertarians and the NeverTrumpers (is that distinction without difference?):

Rand Paul as well as Perry endorse Trump.

I guess the Powers What Are have spoke.


If you are a nevertrumper, you are a fucking idiot. To truly hang yourself out there in that way is simply symptomatic of what an utterly vapid retard you are.

Trooper York said...

Mexican food is like any other food. Some of it is great. Some of it sucks dead dogs balls. It all depends on who is cooking it and what your taste is. I know a lot people denigrate simple Americans who don't have an educated palate. So if they want a taco or chinese food or even corn beef and cabbage they bland American way they are used to they have committed a crime against humanity. It is the same pretentious garbage you run into from pompous know it alls.

For example corn beef and cabbage has nothing to do with the real Irish. The donkeys from Belfast who came over in the 1980's used to mock the Americans who thought that was real Irish food. They wanted a real Irish breakfast with sausages and blood pudding. Which can be quite horrible. The Americanized version of corned beef and cabbage was what the poor Irish immigrant would eat. Rancid tinned army surplus corned beef boiled to death and serverd with cabbage which was just about the cheapest vegetable you could get. It was associated with the Irish because it was what the poor Irish could eat. But it was an Americanized dish. It was what Owney Madden and Mad Dog Coll and Jimmy Cagney and Georgie Raft grew up on. It was what made them so tough.

Don't listen to snobs. Eat your tacos the way you want.

Methadras said...

For the record, I hate corned beef and cabbage. it's right up there with haggis for me.

Trooper York said...

Taco Bell kind of sucks but it is typical fast food. Chipolte grill is a lot better. Of course I can't eat that stuff anymore because it is too salty but it can be fun as a quick change of pace to Mickey D's or Arby's.

Trooper York said...

I hear you Meth. Badly prepared like anything it can be disgusting. But I guaranty if I made it you might give it a go. A fresh corn beef brined with cloves boiled with pototo, carrots and turnips. Slice the corn beef real thin and serve with deli mustard are a fresh piece of rye bread. Fried cabbage on the side in an apple cider vinegarette. Tasty.

A couple of Guinness and topped off with a couple of Irish coffees. Good craic all afternoon. Telling stories and singing and farting. That used to be a good Tuesday afternoon for me.

edutcher said...

Methadras said...

If you are a nevertrumper, you are a fucking idiot. To truly hang yourself out there in that way is simply symptomatic of what an utterly vapid retard you are.

Well, Amanda Carpenter has the hots for you-know-who and doubtless thought she'd be his Lucy Mercer when he moved in to the Rainbow House, so we know why she's still screeching.

I had said the pols would come to this moment themselves, but I guess I gave too many too much credit for too much intelligence.

It took the money men to say, "It's time to get serious". As it is.

PS I think it was you who said trump shouldn't let up the Mo. He's out in Omaha at a rally.

For the record, I hate corned beef and cabbage. it's right up there with haggis for me

You'd be surprised how many Irish feel that way. It's like soul food if you're black. You're supposed to like it.

Methadras said...

Trooper York said...

I hear you Meth. Badly prepared like anything it can be disgusting. But I guaranty if I made it you might give it a go. A fresh corn beef brined with cloves boiled with pototo, carrots and turnips. Slice the corn beef real thin and serve with deli mustard are a fresh piece of rye bread. Fried cabbage on the side in an apple cider vinegarette. Tasty.

A couple of Guinness and topped off with a couple of Irish coffees. Good craic all afternoon. Telling stories and singing and farting. That used to be a good Tuesday afternoon for me.


I'd probably detest it, but I'd suck it up just for the experience alone. Sign me up.

ndspinelli said...

It's tough to have a logical, critical thinking conversation w/ people in right brain emotional mode, particularly when they deny they are, but here goes. Firstly, you can't just build a Magic Wall. You need people, LOTS of people to patrol the Magic Wall because, well..there is no fucking Magic Wall, all walls are penetrable, particularly 1500 mile ones along w/ oceans, impossible to wall. But, let's get back to the people patrolling. First a real world anecdote.

When I started my business in the 1980's I struggled. I had just moved to WI and people don't just hire a PI from Chicago in WI. They are suspicious. So, I tended bar and took just about any case I could. I didn't whine, watch TV and blame Mexicans, I just worked hard. I tended bar @ an Italian restaurant. A coke dealer was a regular. He was pretty big time. Always had one or two blondes w/ him. He told me he would give his women all the coke they could snort, he just had to be able to snort his lines off their titties. Seemed like a win/win to me. This guy knew I was a PI. He got busted and told his attorney to hire me. I hated defending criminals and when I got more successful those were some of the first cases I stopped taking. But, I was just starting out and took the case.

The first thing I did was read all the police reports[there were a shitload, this guy was big time, at least for a Cheesehead], wire tap and body wire transcripts. It became apparent, @ a certain point, that the dealer got hinky of these undercover cop. I mean he was selling to this guy regularly and then he just started blowing him off. So, when I sat down w/ my client I asked him what raised a flag. He told me he ran the Holiday test on him. He got suspicious when he ran the guys plate and it came back not found. But, that is not dispositive. So, he finally agreed to meet w/ the guy, but on Memorial Day. Well, the cop couldn't meet. But, the cop kept hounding my client. On July 4th my client called and said he could meet w/ the cop and that he also had a meth source who would be there if he wanted some crystal. Again, he couldn't meet. That's when my client was sure he had a cop on his ass.

My bride was a hard working govt. employee. She worked nights, brought work home, worked weekends. Most of her coworkers were 9-5 and sat around talking all day. But, there are hard working govt. people. But, as hard working as my bride is, she never worked Holidays. There are hard working cops. But, they get paid a salary, great health benefits and pension. They are the antithesis of a private biz capitalist. So, cops can never compete w/ drug dealers who are the ULTIMATE raw, shoot you dead, capitalists. The same holds true for coyotes/drug dealer v Border Patrol. Most illegals come via coyote. They pay good money to these ruthless bastards.

Privatizing drug enforcement is problematic from a Constitutional perspective. But, I think it could work w/ border enforcement. Pay private companies for each body they nab. If a few coyotes unfortunately get killed trying to flee..so sad too bad. The price coyotes charge will go up, the market will dry up, and some coyotes will say "Fuck me, those gringos are shooting!"

These are the type of things I would like to hear from The Donald. He's too busy eating taco salad and tweeting I reckon.

AllenS said...

If I have one thing going for me, it's the simple fact that I can eat anything, and think that what I just ate was good. I liked the high school lunch, Army food, C rations, and later LRRP meals which were dehydrated and you just had to add water. By then, we started to get heating tablets, which made every meal better.

Methadras said...

Well, Amanda Carpenter has the hots for you-know-who and doubtless thought she'd be his Lucy Mercer when he moved in to the Rainbow House, so we know why she's still screeching.

I'll be honest with you, I have the hots for Amanda Carpenter. She's pretty damned cute. She's married though to Mr. Rogers, so she's right out.

I had said the pols would come to this moment themselves, but I guess I gave too many too much credit for too much intelligence.

It took the money men to say, "It's time to get serious". As it is.


Yeah, well, it looks like there is going to be some outright sabotage of Trump along the way. These guys are worse than traitors. They are willing to sink their own ship so that their competitor can win, all so they can say, "I told you so." These people are worse than Benedict Arnold. And he was pretty fucking bad.

PS I think it was you who said trump shouldn't let up the Mo. He's out in Omaha at a rally.

Yes, I said that Trump should keep his momentum up, but I was reffering to California because I think he actually has good potential here, but after Cruz/Kasich dropped out, he cancelled rallies. That doesn't look good. I wonder why he did it, I never saw a reason why. Momentum is a huge thing. Like in sports, if you have momentum, it's very hard to stop you.

Trooper York said...

My uncle was a lot like you AllenS. He served in the Navy and became addicted to Spam. I know right. He used to eat it all the time. He would make us sandwiches. I mean we would put it on crusty Italian bread with mayo and tasty dill pickles. Or ripe plum tomatoes with olive oil and oregano and some fresh mozzarella on a soft kaiser roll.

The only other place that I ran into aficionados of SPAM was in Hawaii. In a nondescript joint in Honolulu near the Unveristy they had a bunch of dishes made with SPAM. Imagine that.

ndspinelli said...

Big shot NYers love to talk out of their asses. There are Mexicans in NY, but they pale in comparison to Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cubans, Colombians, etc. The more Mexicans, the better the Mexican food. Mexicans are the predominant Hispanic in many communities. They are the predominant Hispanic population in the West, Southwest and Midwest. They are predominant in my two homes of Madison and San Diego. Christ, I had some ass eyed NYer trying to tell me about attorneys all being trial lawyers the other day. You simply have to call them on their bullshit. Some guy who has lived on the same block in NYC his whole life, met a couple Mexicans, thinks he is the authority on all things Mexican.

Methadras said...

AllenS said...

If I have one thing going for me, it's the simple fact that I can eat anything, and think that what I just ate was good. I liked the high school lunch, Army food, C rations, and later LRRP meals which were dehydrated and you just had to add water. By then, we started to get heating tablets, which made every meal better.


Allen, I am almost the same way with school food, rations, MRE's, etc. Shit, I love SPAM. Love that stuff, but there is just some stuff I can't wrap my head around culinary wise.

Methadras said...

Trooper York said...

My uncle was a lot like you AllenS. He served in the Navy and became addicted to Spam. I know right. He used to eat it all the time. He would make us sandwiches. I mean we would put it on crusty Italian bread with mayo and tasty dill pickles. Or ripe plum tomatoes with olive oil and oregano and some fresh mozzarella on a soft kaiser roll.

The only other place that I ran into aficionados of SPAM was in Hawaii. In a nondescript joint in Honolulu near the Unveristy they had a bunch of dishes made with SPAM. Imagine that.


Troop, Hawaiians love SPAM and I'd eat your Uncles sandwhich any day of the week. My mom would cut spam up and pan fry it and make a sandwich out of it. Delicious.

Trooper York said...

I think a lot of food preferences is cultural. What you were brought up with. If you are willing to take a chance you can taste some really great new stuff.

I have been to many different types of restaurants in New York City. Almost every culture has a restaurant in the City and all most all of them have something to recommend them.

The only one that really sucked was the Ethiopian one.

Of course they didn't serve any food. They just gave you a bowl and a robe to wear and you went on the street and sang "We are the World" and begged.

ndspinelli said...

In the last census, there were 1.3 million PR's in NYC. There were 600k Dominicans. There were 280k Mexicans. There are probably 15-20 million Mexicans within a 50 mile radius of where I am currently sitting.

Trooper York said...

Pan fried SPAM with capers and vinegar severed over toasted bread is very tasty.

Trooper York said...

You can even bread it like a chicken cutlet. In fact I would try it but I have to check the sodium content. I found these great gluten free bread crumbs that fry up very crunchy and are just as good as regular bread crumbs. I would fry it up and make it spam Parmesan with buffalo mozzarella and a nice salad.

Anonymous said...

Woohoo! The War of the Blowhards is heating up again! I love it, makes reading Lem's Levity worthwhile. Who will ultimately win? The Brooklyn Big Boy or the Wisconsin Wussy?

chickelit said...

The only other place that I ran into aficionados of SPAM was in Hawaii. In a nondescript joint in Honolulu near the Unveristy they had a bunch of dishes made with SPAM. Imagine that.

Yeah, I noticed the SPAM fetish there too.

I'd name my favorite San Diego Mexican joint but right away I'd getting into a shouting match with the know-it-all part-timers.

ndspinelli said...

You eat the food that is indigenous to the area. I love seafood. I don't eat when I'm in Madison. That's because of geography. I love Italian, I only eat the Italian food I cook in Madison. When it comes to ethnic food, if here are many of a certain ethnicity, the food is good. If there aren't many of that ethnicity, it sucks. People who have lived different places and travel understand this. TOP bitch and those like her don't.

AllenS said...

There is a show on DirecTV called BBQ Pitmasters. I've watched the show, and have come to the conclusion that all of the food is good. I'll never be a judge.

chickelit said...

There are no good Mexican restaurants in Oceanside. Good Thai food, Japanese food, Vietnamese -- all the ethnic foods of people the USMC fought.

ndspinelli said...

I know this guy in Oceanside afraid to go to San Diego. He stays up in North County away from those dirty Mexicans, Negroes and certainly the gays. He has a REAL problem w/ the gays. REAL problem. WTF is that about??

Trooper York said...

I must admit I am not a great fan of barbecue. I know it is big in the Southwest and the South. The appeal just escapes me. Don't get me wrong. I love burgers and hot dogs and sausage and a good steak on the grill. But grilling veggies and giant burned rack of ribs and stuff just doesn't really appeal to me. Most of it is kind of dry. It is all about the sauce.

A prefectly grilled steak on the grill with just a little olive oil, salt, pepper and a garlic rub is perfect as far as I am concerned.

chickelit said...

ndspinelli said...You eat the food that is indigenous to the area. I love seafood.

I agree. When in Hawaii, we bought fresh fish steaks and seered it on a grill.

Trooper York said...

I can't eat that stuff anymore for health reasons so I don't know if I could appreciate it even if an expert prepared it.

AllenS said...

I worked in a factory, and there isn't one sandwich that I didn't make to put in my black lunch box. Spam or bologna is best on the freshest of bread. Every once in a while, I would go on this tuna fish sandwich thingy, and eat that for 3 weeks straight. That was back when Miracle Whip, was Miracle Whip with all of the stuff that, you know who, said we shouldn't eat.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ndspinelli said...

Allen, I've never seen the show. I'll give it a try. BBQ can be adapted to virtually any region. It's the cheaper cuts of meat. Wisconsin has not gotten any good BBQ yet, at least that I've found. San Diego was absent until Phil's BBQ opened recently. It's the real deal. All you need is cheap meat, hardwood, good sauce[Texans will tell you no sauce], and patience. Low and slow. But, I'm sure you know that.

Anonymous said...

Yep, only the WW knows and loves black, brown and gay folks.

chickelit said...

Trooper York said...I can't eat that stuff anymore for health reasons so I don't know if I could appreciate it even if an expert prepared it.

We didn't add salt to the fresh fish. There was enough natural salt in the fish itself.

Trooper York said...

Tuna fish is great as a work sandwich. I would make it with lots of mayo, onion, celery, green olives and vinegar. I know vinegar. But if you smush it all together on a couple of pieces of white bread it is excellent.

There was this little hole in the wall joint on Sixth Avenue and 38th that had the best tuna heros. The old Greek guy would make them at three in the morning and would go heavy with the olive oil on the tuna. He would wrap up the heroes and put them on the counter where they would adsorb all the carbon monoxide from the passing cars and I don't know what it is but it was the best.

Anonymous said...

Oh yes, let's not forget all the homeless the WW knows, loves and feeds, what a guy. Knows all, loves all, always rational, never angry, mean or a bully. Nope.

edutcher said...

Methadras said...

Yeah, well, it looks like there is going to be some outright sabotage of Trump along the way. These guys are worse than traitors. They are willing to sink their own ship so that their competitor can win, all so they can say, "I told you so." These people are worse than Benedict Arnold. And he was pretty fucking bad.

As I say, the money people are telling them to pack it in, so the war is over, for all intents and purposes. They just had to make a little noise so they felt important. Tin-penny dictators do that.

PS Cute is OK, but when it's glued on to crazy, it ain't so cute for very long.

ndspinelli said...

Miracle Whip. When I had a class that was quiet I could always get them going by asking the simple question, "Coke or Pepsi?" But, serendipitous I learned I could also get the class talking w/ Miracle Whip v Mayo. It's all what you grew up on. What mom served. Mine serve mayo you Miracle Whip eating knuckle dragger!!

When I went to Colombia to get our son there were some Lutheran missionaries in Medellin from my brides hometown. I asked if there was anything I could bring. They did not hesitate. They wanted American magazines, M&M's, peanut butter and Miracle Whip. Their knuckles were bleeding from dragging on the streets of Medellin. Seriously, try being a Protestant missionary in the most Catholic country on earth. They had some horror stories.

ampersand said...

There was a book out years back that tried to explain foods and taboos, like aversion to pork. Spam was a great hit in Oceania because of it's similarity to human flesh. Long pig anyone?

AllenS said...

Whoa! Too much info, ampersand.

Trooper York said...

I read something about that. Cannibalism was not so long ago in Oceania. Who knows what goes on out on those deserted desert island.

I heard that Ginger was eaten out by Mary Ann. I know it was just a rumor.

I just hope it was true.

AllenS said...

Pretty sure Gilligan wasn't getting any.

The Dude said...

Otsjenep - where Rockefeller doesn't just refer to oysters.

Methadras said...

Trooper York said...

The only one that really sucked was the Ethiopian one.


Of course the Ethiopian one sucks. I mean what is their signature dish? A plate of flies.

ampersand said...

Cannibalism was not so long ago in Wisconsin either.

AllenS said...

Stop it, ampersand, you're killing me!

ampersand said...

Of course they didn't serve any food. They just gave you a bowl and a robe to wear and you went on the street and sang "We are the World" and begged.

Well Duh! If you want real Ethiopian food you need to get to your nearest airport and wait for the U.N. plane to land.

ndspinelli said...

amper, There's also Ed Gein, the Tony Perkins character in Psycho was modeled after Gein. I think it's all the dairy products.

ampersand said...

Ok I'll change the subject. What do you think of Ed Gein's line of women's wear?

Anonymous said...

Italians eat a lot of cheese.

Methadras said...

ndspinelli said...

Allen, I've never seen the show. I'll give it a try. BBQ can be adapted to virtually any region. It's the cheaper cuts of meat. Wisconsin has not gotten any good BBQ yet, at least that I've found. San Diego was absent until Phil's BBQ opened recently. It's the real deal. All you need is cheap meat, hardwood, good sauce[Texans will tell you no sauce], and patience. Low and slow. But, I'm sure you know that.


Phil's BBQ is in the world of BBQ kind of mediocre. However, the only dish that is even worth going for there is the El Toro. I love that dish.

Methadras said...

chickelit said...

There are no good Mexican restaurants in Oceanside. Good Thai food, Japanese food, Vietnamese -- all the ethnic foods of people the USMC fought.


Overall there aren't any good mexican places in North Country Coastal and Inland. Anything north of the 8 is just bad. The closer you get to the border the better.

chickelit said...

Ok I'll change the subject. What do you think of Ed Gein's line of women's wear?

I thought Gein ran an upholstery shop?

Anonymous said...

Yes, it was called, "Tanned Fannies".

ndspinelli said...

meth, I have lived in a BBQ mecca, KC. Phil's is the closest thing I have found in SD to KC BBQ. When I lived in Chicago I found some pretty good BBQ, not as good as KC. Phil's is real. It's not great but it's cooked right, has good slaw and fries, and good sauce. It gets me through the night. I cook my own @ home but here in KC only have a gas grill. Need wood.

Anonymous said...

Expert in BBQ! What a guy!

ndspinelli said...

I think Dahmer, Gein, and those folks are created because Wisconsin winter hack away @ your soul.

Anonymous said...

Those who live in northern states and stay all winter must all be wacko. Yes indeed.

AllenS said...

I hate to say this, but there are some really weird fuckers in New Richmond WI, and when I say really weird fuckers, I mean really weird fuckers.

Trooper York said...

No wonder they voted for Cruz. Very strategic that way. Very strategic. It really worked out well for them.

chickelit said...

Yes, it was called, "Tanned Fannies".

British or American style?

chickelit said...

ndspinelli said...I think Dahmer, Gein, and those folks are created because Wisconsin winter hack away @ your soul.

I thought they both had mother issues. That's why putting Hillary in charge is going to reek of havoc.

AllenS said...

Chick, just nailed it.

Trooper York said...

Did you see that story about the guy who got arrested for bringing a dog to a hotel for sex?

When I first heard about it I though the story was from Wisconsin but it turned out to be from Arizona. It must be because they have so many Mexicans and not enough Puerto Rican, Dominicans or Colombians.

We might have to consult an expert.

chickelit said...

Q. What did Ed Gein give his sweetheart for Valentines Day?

A box of Farmer Fannies*

AllenS said...

For God's sake TY, why would anyone from WI bring a dog to a hotel for sex, with all of these good looking cows?

ndspinelli said...

Allen, Years back I worked a tough surveillance in rural, Amery. I always tried to give these cases to my employees. I had 2 retired state homicide detectives who worked for me. They knew the state, had good contacts everywhere, and liked to get away from their wives. But, this was a big client and they wanted me to work it. I spent several nights in New Richmond. Seemed OK from what I remember. Although w/ surveillance, you work long hours, have a couple pops, eat, and go to bed.

AllenS said...

"around" -- please add that on the end of my last sentence. Otherwise, the joke won't work.

Trooper York said...

I don't know why Allen. That is why I though we should consult an expert.

AllenS said...

Years back, Nick, I probably knew who you were looking at. New Richmond's characters are out during the day. Night time comes, and the drinking crowd won't put up with them.

AllenS said...

I've heard that the worst thing about having sex with a cow is that you're done, you have to run all the way to the other end, to kiss them.

ndspinelli said...

We have a standing joke in our house. Never eat Chinese in Iowa. We stopped once in Dubuque and the kids insisted on Chinese. So, we went and it SUCKED. It was a teachable moment. It helped them learn where to eat different kinds of food. They learned from a mistake. They are smart enough to not eat Mexican in NYC and not eat Chinese in Iowa. Although, I saw the Knick's zen master ate Thai in Sioux City the other day.

AllenS said...

that you're done = that when you're done

I seem to be typing in short hand.

AllenS said...

I had Famous Dave's in Iowa, and it was just like up here. Good.

ndspinelli said...

Allen, It was some guy who was suing a doc in Madison for med malpractice. He was asking for 7 figures, and it was maybe a legit 5 figure settlement value. Maybe low 6 figures, but not nearly 7 figures. I got some pretty good, not great but pretty good video. Showed he was definitely embellishing his injuries. The case settled. 90% do. I never ask what they settle for.

ndspinelli said...

Famous Dave's is about the best in the MN, IA, WI triangle. I try and stock up on KC BBQ sauce[Gates] but when I run out I go w/ Famous Dave's Texas Pit. I found a great meat market in San Diego named Seisel's. They have good bratwurst, not as good as WI but it will do. And, they have Gates BBQ sauce which made my week when I found it. Now, they charge a lot but you don't use that much. As I said, I can't do real BBQ out here but I do grill chicken and the Gates sauce makes it good.

The Dude said...

There is no beef in barbecue. Chicken, either.

chickelit said...

@Sixty: I remember years ago in Colorado some NC boys showed us all how it was done: the pit, the pig, the preparation. I've never had pork that good since.

Trooper York said...

The used to roast an entire pig in a fire pit Hawaiian style at Hanley's on Court St before every Football Sunday. It never really came out good. I have had it at luau's on three different Hawaiian Islands and really didn't like it either. I don't know. I guess I just prefer an old fashioned sausage and peppers and onion hero like they make at the feast. Or a pork roast made the old fashioned way with fennel and prunes. But a the appeal of a whole roast pig escapes me.

Trooper York said...

I bet it is probably much better made by some country boys in North Carolina. Marinating in a "special" sauce might have a lot to do with it.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

So many picky eaters on this thread.

Name me a food (within reason). Name me a cuisine.

I'll tell you how to make it irresistible.

Either that or my mom just made me eat and fed me too much growing up.

Troop seems to know the deal, though. The divine is in the details.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Never trust a skinny chef.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

BBQ brisket is hardly the worst change of pace.

But then, people can do a lot with brisket. It's becoming the go-to "Let's see what I can make out of this!" ingredient.

Trooper York said...

Heres the thing. You have to try it to see if you like it. But it is not right to ridicule another cultures cuisine. And you know what? Bland all American cuisine is a cuisine as well. Grilled cheese and tomato soup. Processed Mac and Cheese. Chicken casseroles. Tuna casseroles. Bland meatloaf and mashed potato. Baloney and cheese on white bread. To some people that is what their mom fed them. It is their comfort food. They have just as much right to enjoy that as any epicurean feast a foodie might dream up.

If you don't look down and condescend to someone who likes fish eyeballs or cow offal than why should it be ok to look down your nose at somebody that likes corn dogs. Diversity. Choice. It is not just about trans-genders killing babies in the opposite sex bathroom.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I used to think pho was invariably awesome, but then I tried it at other places.

The place I like is named for the year of South Vietnam's strongest pushback, and they do it incredibly right.

Even so, you still have to use three swirls of hoisin sauce around the rim of the bowl, plus the half lime squeezed in, about a dozen basil leaves and three small slices of jalapeño.

As for ingredients, they have about ten different combinations of meat, fat and trimmings. But for mine I choose sliced round-eye steak, well-done brisket, well-done flank, soft tendon and beef tripe. If I want to change it up I'll go with adding fat brisket or some such.

Most savory dish you'll ever have in your life. All day long the boys sit around picking basil sprigs at the tables for the do-it yourself set-up. I hope the owner's made a fortune.

Trooper York said...

Brisket is comfort food. Especially brisket prepared by a Yiddisher bubbe. Sliced thin. Piping hot on fresh rye. With a little horse radish. A Dr. Brown celery tonic. Now your talking.

Trooper York said...

I have been trying to find a real good Vietnamese sandwich shop. There was on on Mott St not so long ago but it is closed down. That was some damned good stuff.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

The foodies and restauranteurs have even made a killing making bland American food chic. I used to like one opened by one of Iron Chef Morimoto's employers who did all the decor like the Brady Bunch interior, and charged more than should be legal for fried chicken and waffles. Probably with a side of mashed potatoes. I know this is no stunning accomplishment nowadays but back in 2005 it was a gutsy move for someone that successful to do.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Troop - If you're in Philly I know a banh mi shop that will knock your socks off. And all for less than $6, too.

They just raised their prices. Used to be $4.50 sandwiches.

The pho place is well worth it also. It's called Pho 75.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Awww what the hell. Hungry, yet...?

;-)

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I think Troop went out for a bite.

ndspinelli said...

NC BBQ is my least favorite. But, I know it's what you grew up on that you love. Many in Texas think there is no sauce w/ BBQ. I have eaten it and liked it. The people who know NOTHING about BBQing are those in the northeast. Our Court St guy is proving that w/ every comment he makes. If I never left the northeast I would be saying the same stupid shit. I learned about BBQing when I got to KC. Just like pizza. People in WI. grew up on horrible pizza. But, that's their heritage and it's tough to change. But, a couple Albanian brothers came to town. They had lived in NYC for awhile and learned how to make pizza. The place has flourished, first kids from the east going to UW found it. Now, many regular Cheeseheads eat there. And, in classic American style, the brothers have Mexicans making the pizza now. Return all Mexicans and the restaurant industry implodes.

chickelit said...

Return all Mexicans and the restaurant industry implodes.

You're forgetting the part when he said we'll let the good ones back in.

chickelit said...

Good pizza or not in Madison, there's no reason we should ditch borders in today's world.

chickelit said...

@Spinelli: What's happening at the US border right now with children is just plain wrong. I don't need to go to Catholic Mass to know that's wrong.

ndspinelli said...

I don't engage Trumpaholics when they're on a bender. Too much emotion, too little logic. You and your Brooklyn Boss can pound your chests about driving commenters away. Fuck, it ain't your blog, right!!

Methadras said...

ndspinelli said...

meth, I have lived in a BBQ mecca, KC. Phil's is the closest thing I have found in SD to KC BBQ. When I lived in Chicago I found some pretty good BBQ, not as good as KC. Phil's is real. It's not great but it's cooked right, has good slaw and fries, and good sauce. It gets me through the night. I cook my own @ home but here in KC only have a gas grill. Need wood.


Haven't been to any KC BBQ places. Never got the chance. Been to a few places in Texas and Alabama, and those were yummy. The only thing I don't really like about Phil's BBQ is the long fucking wait. My god. Everytime I try to go there it's like 1 hour plus.

Methadras said...

Trooper York said...

I bet it is probably much better made by some country boys in North Carolina. Marinating in a "special" sauce might have a lot to do with it.


I just had Tri Tip with some awesome hand rub marinate. One of the secret ingredients was very fine coffee grounds. It was very good.

ndspinelli said...

meth, I've read about the wait and for that reason have never gone to the restaurant. The one on Sport's Arena is only a 5 minute drive. I've Only eaten @ their stand @ Petco Park.

XRay said...

Lem, sorry to sully the blog.

But the long and the short, Spinelli, you're an asshole.

I will now start scrolling past your comments.

Yes, I know, you don't give a shit.

Anonymous said...

Hahahahahahaaah. Oh yeah.