'The vast majority of workers who have been trained in science and engineering are not currently working in a STEM occupation,' the Census Bureau report said. In fact, an average of just 26 percent of science and engineering graduates, aged 25 to 64, worked in a STEM occupation in 2011, instead working in jobs such as management, health care, law, education, social work, accounting and counseling. LinkThere are lots of other choice phrases and truths at the link.
In the name of efficient economics, we do import STEM workers -- not because they are better than American workers but because they will often work for less, and employers get leverage, viz. visas. This is a brutal and harsh reality but also one which affects the on-going and relentless push for more H1-B visas. The policy figures into the grand immigration debate, but at the "high end" rather than the "low end."
30 comments:
You can hold any reasonable position on this topic, but at least be aware of all facets of the debate --especially guilt-tripping American parents and education policy.
(STEM) Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math.
I would say healthcare these days counts as part of STEM so it is unreasonable to leave that out of the equation. Most health care workers receive a lot of biological science training as well as level 1 or 2 math, physics and chemistry.
You can't get around the laws of supply and demand including in the area of employment. If you expect to be paid more to do something others do for less, even on the other side of the planet, then you are in perpetual danger of being unemployed. The only jobs that do not follow this law are jobs not based on merit, which leaves you with a job in the public sector, or education.
The now rare private sector union job will protect you for a short time, but only with the help of rent-seeking regulations that eventually rob the society at large of wealth and innovation.
Be educated, skilled or both, but more important be hardworking, flexible, and goal oriented, and for God's sake take smart risks. You only live once.
I thought Mike Rowe was saying the real issue with the American economy was a lack of interest in entering the skilled trades. If so, it's interesting that this long-term trend was accompanied by a crushing of the unions.
I think it makes the most sense for STEM people to plan a career that eventually leads to self employment. You obviously are smart and can learn things effectively, so learn business, investment, and finance as well, then use it all to build your own income rather than settling for what others are willing to offer you after they take their cut.
Unions were crushed by the laws of economics and a desire by people to be free of them when they became just the new band of fat cats exploiting them.
We undercut STEM jobs by importing immigrants from India and elsewhere so many with that training look for jobs that pay more.
And R&B, the unions crushed themselves by protecting their worse members and not their best members. Unions should be in partnership with business to make $$$ for management and the workers. They are not. They are about entitlements and that why the union model fails.
So did the "laws of economics" dictate that workers shouldn't have organized at all (but not that owners should always be free to organize and collude) or that they just asked for too much?
@bagoh20: I agree with your remarks. I only object to the charade of blaming American students and their schools for the deficiency. Why can't we just flat out admit that we can always import cheaper and cheaper labor units. It seems like an honest assessment of the situation, and would save some handwringing.
When the laws of economics conspire to create yet another Paris Hilton, I wonder if that's not occurring at the expense of the laws of natural selection.
The laws of conspicuous consumption are at odds with the law of who cut the cheese.
Partisan liberals should be looking into this question of STEM education because it is elected Reps like Darrell Issa who push for lifting visa caps.
I'm sure it's not only him.
If economics were the answer to everything, then why didn't more U.S. students choose to graduate in these fields?
Less people went into the trades because there was always the perception, correct or not, that they were less stable or upwardly mobile. That's a law of supply and demand in itself - a demand for stable and upwardly mobile job satisfaction.
And if less Americans go into STEM it's because doing so would violate the law of low demand for boring work. There simply isn't as much of it as STEM-lovers wish there were.
The exceptions are jobs in programming social media, which get to be more creative and fun.
And more lucrative.
And with swimming pools! And gourmet chefs in the cafeteria!
Yeay!
Labor interests are a law of demand, yo. Make STEM jobs more fun!
I only object to the charade of blaming American students and their schools for the deficiency.
About that -- from the linked article:
Another particularly misleading argument alarmists use to “prove” the impending STEM shortage is the alleged weakness of American K-12 system. Advocates frequently claim that American students’ performance in math and science is weak and getting weaker compared to other industrialized nations. But the alarmists don’t mention that such comparative academic performance statistics are averages, glossing over the fact that the United States, in particular, suffers from very large gaps in performance between the bottom quartile and the top quartile in academic performance. STEM occupations are just a small fraction of the overall workforce, on the order of 5 percent to 10 percent and these jobs draw from the top quartile of students. At the top quartile, American science and math students are among the best in the world.
In absolute terms, the United States has more high-performing math and science students than any country. According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, fully 33 percent of top performing science students among OECD nations come from the United States. By contrast, Japan has just 17 percent of top science students; Canada has 5 percent; and Germany has 9 percent.
Oh FFS Lydia we're 3 to 4 times bigger than those countries.
Rhythm and Balls said...
I'm sure it's not only him.
Certainly. It's a cabal. The "who else are they," is the answer to the rhetorical question I posed: "Who are California's Conservatives? It's not an evil arrangement, it's just a position we've evolved to and need to be honest about.
I think my secret to success is that I never wanted a job.
When I ended up in college, I didn't want a degree. When I left school and ended up with a job, I didn't want a career. When I ended up with a career, I didn't want to work. When I ended up with a business, I didn't even want to show up.
I just kept busy a lot.
@bagoh20: Ever heard the adage "the harder I work the behinder I get"? It doesn't refer to adipose deposits from a lifetime of sitting, but rather something else.
With all those things you didn't want but have, it looks like there's a lot you could give to someone else.
R&B, it means I'm a terminal failure at avoiding stuff.
And, I give the state half my income - what else do you want? I do have a few dogs I don't need. You want one?
Why is chick, who is STEM, underemployed?
I wish that they would be a bit more specific about what jobs are actually classified as STEM. It seems to be a rather wide swath from routine IT helpers to systems analysis [my brother's job] to programmers and developers. From taking blood samples for a lab to being a microbiologist or epidemiologist. (I'm vague here because I really don't know what the actual terms are)
At the upper end of any job spectrum, STEM or plumbing, filling the demand would be either difficult or easy depending on how many people have studied for or have those skills. If you have less slots for you, the master plumber, you either work at a less challenging job for a while until a slot opens up, or you find something else that can use your skills. Too bad for you. You were late to the party or don't have enough seniority.
You only can use so many people in any category and only can have so many of those positions available. Everyone on the construction site isn't a Master Carpenter. Some people are working as swampers instead even if they do have the qualifications. Why should it be any different for STEM?
A lot of people drift into programming from other fields, so that's another factor to be considered.
Science and engineering are pretty specific fields, but tech covers a ton of ground.
I would say healthcare these days counts as part of STEM so it is unreasonable to leave that out of the equation. Most health care workers receive a lot of biological science training as well as level 1 or 2 math, physics and chemistry.
Not the same thing. The tech stuff for them is what printers are to programmers.
Talk to a nurse.
The point is, we don't need H-1B workers. Contrary to Zuckerprick and Gates there is no "Shortage". I love how the Rich assholes always love the "Free Market" except when it comes to labor. Oh, we can't have a "free market" there. Anytime demand starts to raise wages, then we must have an artificial increase in Supply to keep DOWN wages.
In my industry, in a big corporation, an engineer worth his salt has moved into management by his mid-30s. Few engineers failed to get a night school MBA (paid for by the company, natch.) Unfortunate if one actually enjoys doing engineering work, but there you have it. To get promotions and more money one leaves engineering. Even managers of engineering groups prefer being described as managers. Bottom line, in many areas one simply doesn't find old engineers.
FWIW, I remember being vaguely shocked at the extremely high % of foreign nationals doing nuclear work at the National Labs 35 years ago. So immigrants in STEM jobs are nothing new.
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