In a statement issued as the Senate and the House prepared to vote on the proposal, Mr. Boehner said: “The fight will continue. But blocking the bipartisan agreement reached today by members of the Senate will not be a tactic for us.”
The Senate is expected to vote on the bill Wednesday evening, with final passage coming late Wednesday or early Thursday.
Under the agreement, the government would be funded through Jan. 15, and the debt ceiling would be raised until Feb. 7. The Senate will take up a separate motion to instruct House and Senate negotiators to reach accord by Dec. 13 on a long-term blueprint for tax and spending policies over the next decade.
144 comments:
I knew the leadership would fold. Boehner and McConnell are of the "the only enemies are on the right" mold.
Seriously, the Republicans won some SMALL concessions that ultimately ended up with the sequester cuts, and that is the only thing they have won since the Tea Partiers won the House back for them in 2010. It is a waorthless party that can't win ANY serious concessions.
It is a waorthless party that can't win ANY serious concessions.
Knowing how to pick their fights would help. They should have passed a CR with zero increase in total spend.
And it looks like Boehner has strengthened his position in the party after all of this. Absolute surrender is now considered reason to reward the surrender monkeys in charge.
What I would like to ask Boehner, and King especially, is what fucking good is having an opposition party if you are going to do everything the other party wants you to do, ALL THE TIME?
Next up, US citizenship for every Mexican.
New Dish Poll out:
"Real Americans Cheer Debt; Obama Popularity Surges"
Knowing how to pick their fights would help. They should have passed a CR with zero increase in total spend.
And what good would that have done? The Dems would have rejected that too, and we would have ended up in this same situation.
At the end the Republicans were looking for an end for HC subsidies for Congress and a delay of the individual mandate. These measures are popular enough. They couldn't even get something symbolic out of this.
Until the Repulbicans actually win one of these CR battles, the Dems have NO REASON to actually pass a budget, or concede anything on any matter to the Republican Party. They know the Republicans will always cave in, no matter what.
What good is an opposition party that can't actually oppose the party in power?
More Dish Headlines:
"Palin Gored As Obama Spikes Football"
"Real Americans Cheer Debt; Obama Popularity Surges"
Care to tell me again how voting for the Republicans is going to be any goddamned different than voting for the Democrats in 2014, El Pollo?
Fuck it, I'm voting for the Communist Party candidate next time. May as well get to the end state and one party rule sooner rather than later.
Fucking Boehner, McConnell and King, every goddamn one of them voting like they had (D)s after their names instead of (R)s. What fucking good are they? What fgucking difference is there between Boehner and Pelosi is Behner is going to take it in the ass from Obama every single time?
Ah, to Hell with them all. Absolutely useless "opposition".
Fuck it, I'm voting for the Communist Party candidate next time.
Do it! I encourage you to if that is where your heart lies.
@Icepick: So I have Simon on Twitter telling me there should be no such thing as a debt ceilings; I asked him point blank whether such a thing as debt really even exists. No answer yet. What do you say?
You "true conservatives" or whatever you call yourselves disappoint me.
Without control, we can't win anyway.
I'll bet Obama will now take a well-earned vacation after all that grueling work.
The idea of a debt ceiling is stupid. All such matters should be handled via the budget process. I'm sure you've heard of the federal government having budgets, back in the days of cavemen and dinosaurs.
And I have no idea who the Fuck you are talking about on Twitter.
But tell me what great thing you Republics s have won, Pollo, by giving Obama everything he wanted. Again. I guess the distance between you and Crack is shrinking too.
Why shouldn't Obama go on vacation, Palladian? His legs are probably sore from kicking Boehner and McConnell in the ass nonstop for the last few weeks.
This was the Republicans' Whig moment. Think the base sat on its hands instead of voting Romney? You ain't seen nothin' yet.
And I have no idea who the Fuck you are talking about on Twitter.
My God you're a dense one. Here's a clue: go ask reader_iam or annie. You do know who they are, right?
"What fucking good are they?"
None. But since nature abhors a vacuum a genuine opposition party will spring up as the Republicans go the way of the Whigs. Either that or the republic is so dead and tyranny is so firmly entrenched that we're already dead and don't know it...yet.
Why Should the Public Trust Republicans With Power?
By DANIEL LARISON • October 15, 2013, 10:27 PM
House Republicans once again fail to fight their way out of a wet paper bag:
House Republican leaders canceled a planned Tuesday night vote on a Boehner-backed proposal to resolve the debt and budget crises hanging over the U.S., but the dramatic news was met with shrugs and snorts. Facing a critical test, having brought the nation to the brink of default, the nation’s top Republican failed to rustle up the votes once again—and the humiliation took nobody by surprise.
As ridiculous as this makes Boehner and the House GOP look, it is an acceptable outcome for the rest of us. Having forfeited any constructive role in the mess that they helped create, House Republicans will now be left to vote on a Senate deal that avoids the worst consequences of their folly for at least a few months. As Altman and Miller recount, this sort of last-minute dodge has become commonplace over the last two years:
The strategy of accommodation has repeatedly brought Congress to the brink of a dangerous deadline, but never truly over the cliff.
Only once Boehner has placated his base can he step aside and allow Senate leaders to take over the work of governing.
While this is meant as a kind of compliment for Boehner, it is really an indictment of the House Republican majority and its inability to function. The implication is that the House majority cannot do its job, and has to rely on the intervention of the other chamber controlled by the opposing party to save it from its own blundering. This “works” only in the sense that it avoids the worst consequences of the House majority’s pointless and destructive behavior. As long as this remains the way that Congress “works” for at least the next two years, the U.S. will lurch from one absurd deadline to the next with little chance of any improvement.
Josh Barro draws the unflattering but obvious conclusion:
There is no serious argument for Republican governance right now, even if you prefer conservative policies over liberal ones. These people are just too dangerously incompetent to be trusted with power.
After watching the display of the last few weeks, it is hard to argue that Republicans should have control over any part of the government. It is even harder to believe that they should increase what control they have.
You mean you're talking to a thirteen year-old about this? He's a bright kid, but come on. I'm also not seeing how berating said thirteen year-old about not having a well thought-out view of national finance makes you some sort of hotshot. You "responsible adults" disappoint me.
Oh, that last reprint (in full, thank you very much) was from The American Conservative. A publication, which if Chickie's adamance of (supposedly conservative) belief and line-pushing stood for anything, would now be hiring him as a writer and political analyst.
Clearly the problem is that the Republicans were not ideological enough and too pragmatic.
You guys should read Buckley some time.
The president refused to negotiate.
He held the nation hostage.
Hate Obama for this all you guys want. The truth is that his opponents make it too easy.
Keep telling yourself that, April.
You don't talk with people who don't sign a pledge to share your ideological and political obsessions first, do you?
Are you doubling down on stupid, Icepick?
I don't mean that Simon. I guess you really never were part of the Althouse community as early as you say you were. Whatever. My mistake to overestimate you.
The Althouse Simon is greater than 13 years of age, and although I've thought him a bit of a hothead in the past (not that I'm one to talk), he's been commendably level-headed and capable of seeing outside partisan priorities recently. I don't know if his recent conversation with Chickie is an example of that, but one can hope.
Conservatives from other countries (esp. in the Anglosphere) seem to understand that there is a certain amount of radicalism that goes way too far. They seem to understand that stability requires things you don't like from time to time -- maybe even, perchance, not trying to shit on the two-party system.
I think since Americans lack a sense of legitimate "ethnic" nationhood, maybe that makes it harder for conservatives to rally around less ideological markers of continuity. But not attending to (which requires, first, noticing and acknowledging) the nation's debt is a radical move indeed. That battle, had the founders even fought it, would have been decisively lost with Hamilton, as Dershowitz seems to have pointed out.
It's not about being more ideological and pragmatic, but rather you are fighting a party, Democrat, that doesn't need to do anything to attain, maintain, and exercise power in giving anything people ask for. That is a difficult party to stop when you have republicans or conservatives saying, "Hey, we can't fund the good time party that democrats are trying to give you." and the low hanging fruit voter just ignores the reality and instead favors what is in front of them.
Couple this message with dissemination by the democrat party apparatus in DC and in the media and you have a wall of sound that is hard if not impossible to penetrate and that's what's happened. All Obama and the democrats had to do is point at republicans and say, "They are bad. They closed down government. You won't get your stuff." the rest takes over.
Chick is still completely and insanely obsessed with Andrew Sullivan. Sullivanist this, Dish this etc. Get a grip wimp.
Chick thought Sullivan was his lover and Sullivan left him.
Chick is now deva. Chick get off the computer, perhaps work at your profession (if you have one) and spend some time with you rfamily and not Sullivan and Palin. And take a deep breath and stop being in a state on constant "disgustiness". Your health and "family will be forever grateful.
And if any of you haven't seen a pic of Palin by some fags Chick will post it...over and over and over and over again.
Chick is a total fucking loser, and by the way you lost again tonight.
What's next? Perhaps reality?
Cruz for president? Yea, that will work. Perhaps Palin giving it another try, sure the country which has "evolved" since her tragedy will vote for her.
The country has changed. You will never win the large states with the population. Yes, Wyoming, Idaho and South Dakota and Mississippi are in your corner but the combined populations of these states equals like San Francisco or Boston metro areas.
Good Luck!
AprilApple said...
The president refused to negotiate.
He held the nation hostage.
April, he didn't have to negotiate. That was the crux of the problem. He didn't see himself as being someone who had to stoop to that level with the layers of sycophants that prop him up from the democrat party, party apparachtiks, to the media. He's got good footing at that point and republicans just have to look up because it makes him look like he's standing on a wall of noise that they can't get through. So they look like dopes in the way they try to attack him. They aren't being smart, but even if they were it would be too late at this point in the game of politics to do anything about it.
See, the problem is, is that the average person isn't concerned with the Game of Houses like the DC insiders are. They don't know the inside baseball of the rules, the insidious nature of the intrigue that goes on in DC. Who talks to who, who sees what. What is this person saying. Information is power and right now Democrats own the information streams so they can play their Game of Houses and keep molding a message that they want to and the siren song that goes out to the masses keeps them where they are without lifting a finger.
There are probably more than two Simons in the world. The only one whose name I bother to connect to a person is someone's son. All other Simons don't really rate as I don't interact with them now, and don't recall interacting with any regularly in the past. There have been by hundreds of people that commented at Althouse in the years I read her site. You expect me to remember the ones that matter to you? Yes, you do overestimate me in that regard.
It's not about being more ideological and pragmatic, but rather you are fighting a party, Democrat, that doesn't need to do anything to attain, maintain, and exercise power in giving anything people ask for.
But once you tell yourself that, you have already decided that one party is evil and the only priority in government is to oppose its every action, if not existence.
The big shame of all this is that Obama's been remarkably centrist and moderating in policy considerations (despite the size of the ACA), and I think the right has been stuck in this rut of fearfully responding to his potential for power and long-ago demonstrated charisma. But if he was as far to the left as they fear, the far-left grassroots would have been way happier with him. The ACA itself was essentially RomneyCare, the individual mandate was a Republican idea (more responsible and less giving to government than single-payer, they said in the day), the bulk of the stimulus was tax cuts, and so on. Guantanamo's open, the War on Terror's still on full, and financial reform was a joke.
How can they not see all these things, I often wonder? Well, it seems the answer lies in their fixation with appearances. Obama led a popular campaign in 2008, the Republican leadership feared being locked out of power in the future, and the ACA scared the hell out of them.
But these things just tell the surface of the story. Every other policy detail I laid out above shows how willing he is to listen to a sober challenge, and incorporate moderating policy aims into his governance.
Icepick said...
And what good would that have done? The Dems would have rejected that too, and we would have ended up in this same situation.
What makes you think that? They would have had to explain funding the full government, just without the automatic increase, is unfair.
Titus - you should be nicer to Chick. Yes, he's given to overexaggerations at times and caricatures, but he means well. He probably knows his fixation with Andrew Sullivan is a bit unhealthy.
Meth - Are you saying we have a dishonest, in the tank, democrat protection racket, hacktastic press?
That's the stuff campaigns are made of, April!
You guys will get over this. We got over Reagan. And Nixon. And you'll get through this.
Just think nice thoughts and remember that Apple Pie, Flags and Moms are still not banned in this FascistMuslimState.
Media (i.e. reporting reality) has a well-known liberal bias and business has a well-known conservative bias. I guess that's life.
So that's how I knew this was over once the Chamber, WSJ and the rest started abandoning "The Cause". (The Cruz Cause).
Not being in the pockets of big business (or abandoning any other patron) means, first, listening to them as objective outsiders - instead of as benefactors. This just didn't work.
Stalin blamed the failure of collective farms on the kulaks. Instead of getting with the program, they sabotaged it by starving to death. Through all those years it never occurred to the Soviets that the problem with their farm program might be collectivism......I foretell a similar future for collective medicine. Any problems will be attributed to greedy doctors and the fast food restaurants that are killing the American public.
Success.
Pay grade.
Lower your expectations and open your wallets.
And now we know McConnel's price: $2 Billion, give or take.
A proposal to end the government shutdown and avoid default orchestrated by Republican Leader Mitch McConnell and Democratic Leader Harry Reid includes a $2 billion earmark for a Kentucky project.
Language in a draft of the McConnell-Reid deal (see page 13, section 123) provided to WFPL News shows a provision that increases funding for the massive Olmsted Dam Lock in Louisville from $775 million to nearly $2. 9 billion.
I guess 20 pieces of silver doesn't do it any more.
h/t The Other McCain
But once you tell yourself that, you have already decided that one party is evil and the only priority in government is to oppose its every action, if not existence.
And how does this differ than what the Democrats are doing with regards to the Republicans? After all, you now say that risking a default is the worst thing ever. Five yearws ago you said that Obama wanting to let the government default was a mark of his great distinction and leadership.
I asked you a couple of weeks or so if you could name one thing that you opposed that Obama had done. And your reply was that you'd have to know what the Republicans thought on the issue before you could say anything definitive. Everything, every goddamned little thing, is about defeating the Republicans and instituting one party rule in this nation for everyone in the Democratic party.
Ice Pick and R & B agree...
Voila, bipartisanship.
What makes you think that? They would have had to explain funding the full government, just without the automatic increase, is unfair.
Marshall, what did they explain this time? They simply said, "Give us everything we want, and this is non-negotiable." That's it. Obama even made it clear that negotiating with the ayatollahs in Iran, but never with Republicans.
If the Republicans had done what you suggest, the Dems would have simply said that this is the same as defunding the government, they won't stand for it, and give in, or else.
They didn't explain anything this time. What makes you think they would have explained it this time? Or that to those who think THIS issue TODAY is Bush's fault, that this would have mattered?
Well that was a fucking embarrassment. It is difficult to see what was achieved over the last three weeks other than to knock a few points off GDP growth and weaken US prestige. Just a ridiculous way to govern. The only other notable effect was to hurt the Republican's chances of winning the senate and/or the next presidency. If they had just done nothing they would be in much better shape than they are now.
Someone said that shutting down the government felt like an achievement in itself. This is just nuts. It not only didn't save money but ended up costing money through reduced GDP growth and reduced tax revenues. Politicians are elected to govern to the best of their ability, not create constant grid-lock.
NO, Phil, we really don't, because Ritmo WANTS a one party state with dissenters ending up like the kulaks, and I don't.
Through all those years it never occurred to the Soviets that the problem with their farm program might be collectivism.
You're wrong on that. They knew. They just didn't care. It was more important to have failures to point to so they could keep killing people in large numbers to maintain the proper level of terror.
I'm proud of the chicken shit republicans for holding out so long and creating a destructinve fuss that lead to nothing. It's perfect. It's exactly what I hoped they would do. It would be nice for them to hold out longer, just fuck off the Senate bills, that's not the way bills are processed. I saw it on Saturday cartoons. That's backwards. I loved the way they show how malicious federal government is and how unworthy it is to have any control whatsoever. That was splendid.
Fewer people trust federal government now than ever. Keep up the good work.
Now that the president is seen as a mean-spirited pixie prick and Reed seen as anachronistic antique, two perfectly petulant stompy feet. They completely reversed the party of "no." What little pricks .
And the tea party scared the living shit of them. All Europe too. Scared the living shit out of them so much they must pervert federal departments to defend and still have them nipping their heels, now chewing their asses. Good work!
They're scared. It shows. And it's just the beginning.
The republican party may last after all, but it will be a different party altogether.
Clap on the back to my Republican friends.
Don't forget to watch for the knife in the hand.
Chick is still completely and insanely obsessed with Andrew Sullivan. Sullivanist this, Dish this etc. Get a grip wimp.
Ha ha. He keeps calling me a Sullivanist even after I've told him two or three times I have NFC who he's talking about. : D
Likening this situation to the Soviets shows initiative, clear thinking, and promise!
Let's be BOLD and live in fear of a Soviet takeover at every corner of government debate!
Icepick said...
Marshall, what did they explain this time? They simply said, "Give us everything we want, and this is non-negotiable." That's it.
Untrue. They explained that they considered defunding an illegitimate process and the public agreed. But if the House had passed a CR without increases they would not have had the same support.
Is Chippie actually saying he's proud of a party so unstable and insane as to worry others around the world? Let's hope that this becomes his plank in a new platform for his party. To BE SCARY! Maybe they can put flashlights illuminating their faces from below and wear fangs and dark capes.
This, is the conservative movement that Buckley warned us of, before he cleared it of the "kooks". Oh well. I guess they're a bit like weeds. Pruned back for a spell but always ready to regrow.
You Sullavinists should leave these poor righties alone. Let them lick their wounds and whimper. :)
Splendid comment by Chip Ahoy at 9:22.
Oh, well, another crisis down the drain!
How many how we survived since Obama took office?
This one just plain bored me. Even Inga's sticking the knife in and twisting is boring.
People who imagine that they have triumphed politically are the damnedest bores. You gotta wonder how in the fuck they delude themselves into believing that they are a player on the winning team.
I've taken up pencil sketching. Now, that's kinda interesting.
ST! You are special.
The U.S. is dead in the water right now.
Out of ideas.
Sclerotic.
Bent on insuring against everything. Make everything safe. Batten down the hatches. Shield the women and children from reality.
What a fucking crashing bore.
Hey Crack, Whatcha talking' about. They were a profile in courage! LMAO.
Recall McCain.
That could be the beautiful flower that sprouts in the spring.
Yeah- Chip. yeah.
Oh, well, I've probably got another 10 to 15 years of a clear mind before the benevolent Nurse Ratchets financed by the Fed take control and do "what's best for me."
I hope I'm one of the Alzheimer's patients who tries to take every fucker who changes his diapers out with a roundhouse sucker punch.
ricpic: NSA
Fast & Furious
IRS
BENGHAZI
Record Poverty
16,754,114,435,411 National Debt
Incoherent Foreign Policy
OBAMACARE
Household Income Down 8%
Health Premiums Up $3,000
Number on Food Stamps Up 12 Million
10 Million Out Of Labor Force Since 2009
Transition From Full-Time to Part-Time Employment
Nuclear Iran
Intel Leaks
Montana Urban Schmendrick: Republicans Are So Irresponsible
ricpic @10:39
yay team yay! We won!
What's the next crisis?
Has it been scheduled yet?
At least Crack is entertaining.
He's gone completely off the deep end with the race hustling, but at least he's being entertaining while he makes a damned fool out of himself.
That's a good thing.
ST, you are entertaining too, 'cause you're special. Don't sell yourself short.
Oh, hell, Inga, my job is to sing and dance and make a complete fool out of myself.
Thanks for the job recommendation.
ST,
"Puttin' on a show - entertainment!"
Are you depressed about something?
Hell, I'm about as happy as I've ever been.
I've been retired for a year now from the wonderful world of the Dilbert cubicle farm.
It's odd, but I hear the call of the jungle out there. Time to rumble. Babysitting my granddaughter. She's a gift.
What you may be noticing is that I am in a state of rest as I gather my strength and wits to go out and do battle with the assholes again.
Oh, you're going back to Facebook, huh? Make sure to report back to us on those status updates. That always gets everyone stirred up here.
Facebook assholes are harmless doormice.
No, the assholes I'm talking about reside in the nether regions of the music biz.
I actually do battle out there in the place you haven't visited in some time... reality.
Phx, you are on a roll tonight! I like your funny side.
Love that devil worship music, Crack.
For a while, I was a fan of the of the Dying Fetus band. I think they call it death metal.
Those guys were rad. Just like you were having a talk with Satan.
That's the sound of the exorcising of free speech.
Well, keep it up, you little devil ;)
So many assholes... so little time!
Tell me about it.
I am with Chip Ahoy- many Americans learned in the last two weeks that when there is a partial federal got shutdown, their cities and towns and lives still go on without much fuss.
And they also saw with their own eyes that Obama and the Dems are scared, incompetent, cowardly little fascist wannabes.
I like Ghost B.C.
They explained that they considered defunding an illegitimate process and the public agreed.
Except that defunding hadn't been the Republican position for more than a week.
Record Poverty
16,754,114,435,411 National Debt
...
Household Income Down 8%
Health Premiums Up $3,000
Number on Food Stamps Up 12 Million
10 Million Out Of Labor Force Since 2009
Transition From Full-Time to Part-Time Employment
Yes, but they're winning, ricpic, and this is exactly what they're celebrating. It's what phx and Ritmo and Inga and Crack and ARM enjoy, seeing all this economic ruin. Just so long as THEIR SIDE WINS this stuff is all good. They enjoy seeing the economy go to Hell, because it means a permanent Democratic Majority.
That Ghost B.C. thing is... well, I don't know what the hell it is.
I was in Warsaw right after the expulsion of the Soviets. What a party. The girls all bleached their hair blonde, and donned leather miniskirts and Nancy Sinatra leather boots up to mid thigh.
Satan did, indeed, visit Warsaw. The city was completely flattened to rubble by the end of WWII.
Amazingly, the one building that survived was a tiny Jewish temple.
He can't help it, phx. Like the righties here in California, Colorado, NYC and the like, Sexually Transmitted Shouting Thomas lives in Woodstock. They can't find decent places to live amongst people who actually believe the foolhardy crap that they do, which seems to rankle them. On the other hand, they might want to get a hint - the places they live in are nice for a reason - connies didn't get a hold of them and turn them into hellholes.
It must suck when all the nice things in your life (including, in ST's case, your friends) come from assholes. If only we could be as perfect as he.
ST actually likes to be abused. He just wants it in a way that he deems "witty". A bit odd, like hearing a masochist wearing a leather mask with a zipper on the mouth complain that you didn't whip him the right way.
Make sure you remember to give the Tea Party none of the credit for that, Ice and ric. The country won't, either. Oh wait...
Ritmo, we've had five years of Obama's paradise. We're still five million or so FT jobs short of where we were in 2007.
Median income has fallen.
HC costs continue to skyrocket for everyone I know, although I had some rich asshole in California (not anyone that posts here) tell me HIS premiums are coming down.
Millions and millions of people have dropped out of the labor force, masking how bad the unemployment situation is.
Most of the jobs created during Obama's recovery have been part time jobs.
California, that paragon of liberal virtue, has the highest poverty levels in the country, according to a new study that factors in cost of living.
So, please tell me, what are you celebrating again, other than that your PARTY is winning while the nation flounders? Because really, that seems to be the only thing that you Dems like phx and Inga and ARM and Cracker and Althouse care about, which is that teh Party wins, regardless of what happens to the nation.
I have never heard any of you speak of how badly the economy is doing. I have never heard any of you lament that food stamp usage has skyrocketed DURING Obama's 'recovery'.
But you are all quick to crow about your party winning. Is there anything more to it than that? Because at the moment your only concern seems to be establishing one party rule, and banning all dissent.
I'm sure glad the Tea Party prevented Obama from allowing the states and cities to keep all those workers of theirs hired, Icepick! Oh, wait...
See, a rational person would call that "evidence". But we are dealing with individuals who can't reason. Everything that is known was always known, in their minds. No new facts can get in. Democrats destroy jobs and want tyranny. These "thoughts" have replaced in their minds what we would otherwise call "facts", and ain't no way nothing else getting in.
In other countries, conservatives object, and oppose, but with a reason for doing so. In America, the conservative movement doesn't need a reason for anything it does or believes in. And it's greatest modern architect, William F. Buckley, knew this full well. That's why he declared that in order for his party to achieve electoral success, he'd have to purge it of the kooks. But alas, that is what their "grassroots" is: Kooks. In their asylum, it really is inmates who would run the show.
Ritmo, we've had five years of Obama's paradise. We're still five million or so FT jobs short of where we were in 2007.
Median income has fallen.
HC costs continue to skyrocket for everyone I know, although I had some rich asshole in California (not anyone that posts here) tell me HIS premiums are coming down.
Millions and millions of people have dropped out of the labor force, masking how bad the unemployment situation is.
Most of the jobs created during Obama's recovery have been part time jobs.
California, that paragon of liberal virtue, has the highest poverty levels in the country, according to a new study that factors in cost of living.
So, please tell me, what are you celebrating again, other than that your PARTY is winning while the nation flounders? Because really, that seems to be the only thing that you Dems like phx and Inga and ARM and Cracker and Althouse care about, which is that teh Party wins, regardless of what happens to the nation.
I have never heard any of you speak of how badly the economy is doing. I have never heard any of you lament that food stamp usage has skyrocketed DURING Obama's 'recovery'.
But you are all quick to crow about your party winning. Is there anything more to it than that? Because at the moment your only concern seems to be establishing one party rule, and banning all dissent.
Hey Ice, just let me know when you get around to your conclusion here, which is that: The Tea Party had NOTHING to do with any of this!
We're almost with ya, buddy. One party must seem like a foregone conclusion when your opposition is as crazy as Tea Party!
The one rule of Tea Party: Don't talk about Tea Party!
Now go ahead and continue to tell me about how bad Democrats are. You've already spent enough time criticizing the Tea Party, and I think it would be nice if you gave them a rest. How much of your meanness do they have to put up with? I mean, they're radicals and GRASS ROOTS and radical grassroot hyper-partisan activists can never do anything wrong!!!! EVER EVER EVER!!!
The Sullivanist meme sure rings a bell with some of you guys--especially Titus. LOL According to Titus, he knew Sullivan at Harvard. I don't know if he meant that Biblically, but it would explain some things.
Chick, your forever "in-joke" is now so old that dead grandmothers officially fart dust when you tell it.
http://www.epi.org/blog/congressional-republicans-smothered-rapid-economic-recovery/
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/09/did-republicans-deliberately-crash-us-economy
You know, Ritmo, the Tea Party didn't have any power at all until January 2011. The recovery had already tanked by then. More importantly, what have Obama and the Democrats tried to do to improve things? Not much.
Last year, during election season, Obama put forth a plan (rejected out of hand by the Democratically controlled Senate) that would have created 1,000,000 new jobs. IF it had worked as advertized, and so far Obama hasn't had a single economic projection that even came close to panning out. Even if it had worked out, it would have been millions of jobs short of what was needed to get the nation back to where it had been a few years earlier.
But the effort was half-hearted, and only meant to check a box for his campaign. (That's why even the Senate didn't bother with it, just like they reject Obama's budgets out of hand. That's the Senate, run by Democrats, not the House.) Obama has done very little about the economy after the passage of his stimulus package, which occurred during the earliest weeks of his Presidency. Cash for clunckers? A joke. As have been the various mortgage programs designed to keep people in their homes. They were stop gaps at best, and they didn't even work as stop gaps.
There was more money for the bankers and financiers. Lots for them, though it's mostly hidden from public scrutiny, as most don't understand how the QE programs coupled with massive debt issuances (and how that is done through primary dealers) have funneled more into the hands of Wall Street. But that's more than anyone else has gotten.
So please, talk about the Tea Party some more. Talk about them exclusively. That doesn't change the fact that during the first two years of his P{residency Obama mostly dithered on the economy, while pursuing HC reform. (The wrong policy at the wrong time, even if it hadn't been so ineptly administered.)
But mostly, in fact entirely, you are offering nothing but snark, while deflecting responsibility for your own party's failed leadership. Republicans have been awful on the economy the last three years. But the Democrats have been at least as bad, and Obama has not made it a priority at all, instead being more concerned with everything from the war on women to bragging about blowing up women and children in dusty shitholes of the Third World.
All you've got is snark. Not even a pretense for caring about governing, or governing well.
In 2009 Democrats demonstrated they were willing and able to do everything by party-line vote. They did a large stimulus package, about half of which was stuff they wanted to do anyway and didn't have much effect stimulating the economy, and the other half of which (tax credits and such) that was going to take a little too long to have an effect.
Laying the blame at the minority party's feet when the minority controlled nothing is more than a stretch. It's downright dishonest. Not that I expect anything else from Democrats and their allies.
Most Canadian and British people I've met think that their health care system is shabby. That's not the disturbing thing. The disturbing thing is that they want to keep it......Obamacare is probably here to stay. I think most people will find that their insurance will cost more and their care somewhat more problematical and vexing to negotiate. I suppose someone somewhere will come out ahead on the deal. There will be Lifetime movies about such people--maybe even a big budget Tom Hanks movie celebrating a surgeon who exceeds his quota of forty diabetic foot amputations per day. Hero worker. The losers in this brave, new world will pass quietly away, their pain and loss undramatized.
The workforce is reduced by two million under Republican (not just TP?) imperatives. I've provided the evidence. I've shown that Repubes never did this in any other recovery - including their own. So all your malarkey amounts to a hill of beans when we can see you blatantly ignore the initiative with the most direct impact of all: Two million laid off because of recht-wingers. That means unemployment is 1.5% higher than it would be: or 7.3% instead of 5.8%.
So you can criticize Obama all you want. I don't think he's perfect. Maybe some of his programs were kookoo. But what's indisputable is that you can't find any significant number of economists to endorse the Bizarro-World, anti-Keynesian, We're just in it for ourselves and our (Tea) Party Repube approach, AT ALL. So go ahead and ignore that, and I'll do my best to ignore your complaints, too. Fair?
If my snark is what you object to amidst all your hypocrisy, lack of introspection and arrogance, I'll be ok. The people know which faction thinks it's too good for criticism and it's not the one being led by Obama. You are completely unwilling to even look at the folly of SUDDENLY opposing the employment of 2 million Americans and can only talk about what Obama does instead???Ridiculous. No wonder the country doesn't take Republicans seriously. You will never learn, will you?
In 2009 Democrats demonstrated they were willing and able to do everything by party-line vote.
And a damn good thing they did, too - seeing as how all significant economists agreed with everything they wanted and with NONE of what the Repubes wanted! I'll make a partisan stand in accordance with what economists (and scientists, and gynecologists, for that matter) say ANY day over what some ignorant anti-education political wacko faction proposes - just so that they can wreck the president. THEY ADMITTED THAT WAS THEIR GOAL! We have the quotes, so stop trying to deny it. Just stop already. Your war against reality is shameful and embarrassing and provoking sympathy from less and less people with each passing day.
Woodrow Wilson felt that Republicans would only be a hindrance to him in Paris when he went to negotiate the peace treaty. When he came home, the Republicans had control of the Senate and his treaty will still born. More catastrophic than his exclusion of the Repubblicans was his exclusion of the Germans from the peace negotiations. The Germans felt that they had been hosed and that his 12 point program was a pious fraud. Wilson's failures in Paris had a lot to do with the subsequent mess in Germany......I think the President who Obama most resembles is Wilson. There's that same bigotry masquerading as pious rectitude and that same unwillingness to buy the players a round after a winning hand.
Then William, I think your choice of acquaintances abroad was a little self-selecting. The ones I meet don't seem to have nearly the complaints that yours do, and that matches the polling. Again with the anecdote-as-evidence theory of reality that keeps righties in such steep, deep denial of anything and everything that the public needs them to know in order to create coherent and rational policy.
I also note that Bush didn't exactly get lots of cooperation from Dems in the early days of his Presidency.
I'll also note that when Bush was President, deficits that totaled a few hundred billion were BAD, but once Obama was elected President deficits that were over a trillion dollars were considered fiscally responsible.
Also, when Bush was President, troops getting killed was BAD, and had to be discussed all the time. Anyone want to guess as to relative levels of troop deaths in Afghanistan since Obama took over? Hardly ever discussed, and certainly not front page news anymore.
Let's see, when Bush was President, threatening to default on the country's debt was considered something that only those that aspired to the Presidency could do. Now it is considered unpatriotic.
When Bush was President, UE-3 rates under 5.5% were considered horrible. These days, UE-3 rates over 7% (and that being several points low due to people dropping out of the workforce) is considered a number so GOOD that people should even consider running against Obama's reelection effort.
There's lots of stuff like this. What Democrats called BAD back then is considered GREAT now. What they thought was GREAT back then is BAD now. And they will not even bother to defend any of it. They will just ignore the past, unless they think they can blame Bush.
Come on, Ritmo, telling me how Obama wanting to default on the debt when he was a Senator was a good thing, but now it is a bad thing. I've asked for this particular before, from you and phx, and I never get an answer. I'd ask ARM but that would be even more pointless. And Crackers and Inga are both to insane to even have a chance of answering this one. Come on, you guys just got the big win, you now own Boehner, McConnell and the bulk of the Republican Party. Throw me a bone and explain how Obama wanting to default years ago made him Presidential, but others wanting to do that now make them treasonous. I'd just like to know that one thing.
Ok William then hopefully the Repubs can do their best to recreate a post-Wilsonian resurgence and govern just like Coolidge and Hoover.
Just stop already with the political obsessions and post-hoc historical opportunism and fantasies. Your policies are simply not working. Your tactics aren't working. You have to stop just plain opposing things just because you hate the president and learn to think for yourselves as if 1980 weren't the only year in economics and policy.
Shorter Icepick: "Dems weren't angels when Bush was prez so revenge is the best policy during an economic disaster".
Dude, it's just not working. Give it up. Stop with the vengeance. I haven't seriously liked more than one or two or three Dems at a time during my voting career, unfortunately. But you sure are doing your damnedest to make the lesser of two evils as clear and obvious a choice as daylight.
And a damn good thing they did, too
So, you are admitting that what you wrote in the immediately prior comment to this was bullshit, namely that the Republicans were responsible for Democrats not getting to do what they wanted during the first two years of Obama's Administration. Thank you for once again saying one thing and immediately contradicting it. Dems got what they wanted the first two years of Obama's Administration, and the economy did NOT take off. That is pretty much ALWAYS when a recovery is on fire, is during the early days of the recovery. But you missed that, when you were getting everything you wanted.
Stop with the vengeance. I haven't seriously liked more than one or two or three Dems at a time during my voting career, unfortunately.
And yet you STILL cannot find one thing to criticize about them. Not one thing, and I've only been asking you about this for YEARS.
And for the record, my policies aren't being tried. And at the moment, your policies aren't working either. How are those exchanges working? Not so well, are they. And that is purely an Administration fuck up. Not that you will admit that. Nor will you admit that Obama's promises about keeping doctors and reducing costs in HC have proven to be lies, even though he got the plan he wanted on a party-line vote.
You are getting everything you guys want right now. And just like Stalin and the Kulaks, you can't help but look around for other people to blame when things don't work out.
So, you are admitting that what you wrote in the immediately prior comment to this was bullshit, namely that the Republicans were responsible for Democrats not getting to do what they wanted during the first two years of Obama's Administration.
...
The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.
Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader (not just "some Republican"), October 23, 2010.
What do you want, a quote testifying that this wasn't what he'd had in mind for the two previous years? He's all but given away the play right here.
And yet you STILL cannot find one thing to criticize about them. Not one thing, and I've only been asking you about this for YEARS.
Lesser of two evils, man - a concept you're clearly not interested in understanding.
But it's ok. Republicans will need people like you - people who vote purely with your emotions and don't let any reasoning enter.
And for the record, my policies aren't being tried.
What BS. This reminds me of that quote when lefties go "But capitalism is a system that has never been tried!" Lol.
And at the moment, your policies aren't working either.
Which ones?
How are those exchanges working? Not so well, are they.
That's a problem with the implementation - no question there. The IT was done poorly.
And that is purely an Administration fuck up.
No argument there.
Not that you will admit that.
Oh wait... except for the fact that I just fucking did! But that must make it less exciting than when you can just declare and guess what I'll say...
Nor will you admit that Obama's promises about keeping doctors and reducing costs in HC have proven to be lies, even though he got the plan he wanted on a party-line vote.
Incoherent statement. What does partisan voting have to do with lying?
You are getting everything you guys want right now.
Not by a longshot. But if Republican party incompetence keeps up like this, we'll get closer. And we still won't be as radical as the TP. Polls show the people want a lot of what we do. So stop tempting me to pretend to be the hyper-partisan that you know the TP are. Obama's moderating fine.
You are getting everything you guys want right now. And just like Stalin and the Kulaks, you can't help but look around for other people to blame when things don't work out.
Oh, really? Just like? I thought we were just going for a Stalin-lite setting.
Come on, man. The rhetoric is doing less and less. It's running out of energy. Update.
I don't hate the President. I do think that he has been demonstrably unsuccessful in most of his policies and absurdly over praised for his talent as a public speaker...... I think the net result of Obamacare is that most people will pay more for worst coverage. There will be a small percentage of the people--the previously uninsured who get sick--who will come out ahead.....Obamacare will not end America as we know it, but more people will be worse off because of it and the pace of medical innovation will be considerably slowed.
William: How small is the percentage of the population that's uninsured do you expect do benefit?
This little fight is over, but it was all symbolic. The Debt limit was never a real issue, the government didn't really shut down, but what did actually happen?
1) The Administration showed it was mean, callous, vindictive and small with it's power and how it used it against it's innocent citizens.
2) Obama and the Dems where shown to be the sole owners and inflictors of Obamacare on the public. The Repubs made it damned clear it's not theirs.
3) Obamacare got off a good start in it's inevitable party-killing disaster of a roll out, which will continue to hurt people by the millions in very painful ways that they will not be able to forget. This will continue to be a new story of failure month after dreadful month for our citizens, our economy and the Democrats.
Over the last two weeks I found the theater a little tragic, but the real world happenings to people out in the nation during that time have been devastating to the Dems. They just chose to focus on the squirrel show which many actually are dumb enough to think was important. Now, they will have to face what they have won. What they have wrought, and what it says about them and their unworthiness in governing Enjoy, and stay thirsty my friends.
Bull Run.
Gloating, stalking, liars. LMAO!
Well, if we keep teaching Congressional Democrats that not negotiating will be rewarded, they'll keep not negotiating. You get more of the behavior you incentivize.
"It is difficult to see what was achieved over the last three weeks other than to knock a few points off GDP growth and weaken US prestige."
-- Yet again, moderate Republicans who worked for compromise were shown to be rubes and fools, and that no compromise can be made with the current Democrat party establishment, and thus, the right is further radicalized. In short, the left is teaching the right that, to win, you have to not negotiate and stick to your guns, no matter what. Some kids not getting cancer treatments? Tough luck; giving them the treatment will lose you power. Force them to suffer until the good people on the other side capitulate.
"It is difficult to see what was achieved over the last three weeks other than to knock a few points off GDP growth and weaken US prestige."
All for the lofty goal of forcing a disastrous law on the American public this year rather than next when it might be far less of a disaster. The Dems forced the Repubs to suffered a minor political embarrassment so that the Dems can have their catastrophic one. You won, now carry that ugly ass trophy home.
Matthew and Bagoh,
You two guys are delusional on how this was perceived by the general public. No one believes that Obama or the Dems wanted a shut-down. They love big government. If the Repubs can't establish consistent messages what chance do they have of winning a public political battle? They should have stuck with government doesn't work and highlighted the ACA roll-out. It was amateur hour, much like all those senate primary picks that bombed allowing the Dems to retain control of the senate.
After witnessing decades of incompetence by the Dems it is hard to believe that they are now the more competent and united political party in the US, and have been for several years, at least since they lost the house.
If the general public doesn't believe the party that refused to negotiate and turned down a CR at the start to keep the government open wanted to shut down the government, there's not much the Republicans can do.
It is sort of like people who think Tyler Durden wasn't a villain. If people ignore the actual facts and text of what happened to substitute some fantasy, you can't argue with them.
Last night on Hardball I heard Chris Matthews say the situation we just went through is what happens right before a military coup. He said that the Republican House exercising it's rights to demand some fiscal sanity and trying to at least slow down the fiscal debacle of Obamacare as simply spite work to reverse the one achievement of the Obama administration. This is the few of most liberals. That the duly elected House of Representatives had no right to demand a fig leaf of fiscal responsibility in regard to the debt ceiling. As though anything the Republicans do in opposition is not "legitimate."
I saw a clip of the hearing where the head of the Park service said he couldn't get it done with a budget of more then 2 billion.
That's right 2 billion.
Oh and I meant to say it is most liberals view that the House does not have the right to exercise it's Constitutional duty to handle the purse strings. That they should just except more debt, more spending, more useless spendthrift programs simply because the President demands it.
The Beltway Rhinos agree with this. That is why they must be eliminated. Hopefully the Speaker is gone since he does not represent the grass roots of the party but simple the establishment and media view of how things should be. He had no problem stabbing his base in the back.
Coming soon...unlimited and unstoppable immigration given to you by Obama and the big business interest that combined on this issue. Who gets screwed?
Regular Americans.
How long do you think that is going to last.
You can push people only so far before you get a reaction that you really do not want.
Trooper,
Why do you watch Chris Matthews? As far as I can tell his sole goal in life is to give heart attacks to guys like you. You should be watching the fishing channel.
You have to hold your enemies close ARM.
When you watch Chris Matthews you get the unvarnished truth of what the liberals really think.
It is very instructive.
Trooper York said...
When you watch Chris Matthews you get the unvarnished truth of what the liberals really think.
So when I listen to Michael Savage I'm getting what Lindsay Graham really believes in his heart?
Come on, Ritmo, telling me how Obama wanting to default on the debt when he was a Senator was a good thing, but now it is a bad thing. I've asked for this particular before, from you and phx, and I never get an answer. I'd ask ARM but that would be even more pointless. And Crackers and Inga are both to insane to even have a chance of answering this one.
No, I've explained everything to you - countless times, in countless ways - but you're stuck on stupid, thinking your outlook (which, BTW, you just learned doesn't correspond with reality) is too wonderful to be rejected. Here's the main thrust of it:
Times change. For instance:
NOW you want to sound rational.
NOW you want logic and words to mean something - not when you were trying to elect Captain Mormon Spaceship and dicking me down for saying the same.
NOW you're back to counting pennies, but before the shutdown - which cost us billions - you had principles that prevented you from caring.
You're a mess, Icepick, a fucking mess,...
ARM Lindsey Graham is not a conservative. He is a Rhino of the first water.
When you hear Michael Savage you hear what a lot of conservatives think as unpalatable as that might be to you just as Matthews is unpalatable to me.
Nope, too mean. I won't hit a injured man when he is down already, Icepick.
Zoom, swoosh, zip, gone.
It's called mercy. He needs some.
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