Monday, July 22, 2013

Let's take a closer look at those polls.

Althouse without comments.

Like many of her polls, Althouse's choices here are incomplete, in a way that rigs the results.  The reader is forced to choose the answer that comes closest to what they consider right -- to choose the best of several bad options.  With careful wording, she can herd results into whatever column she wants to see come out on top.

As Althouse has pointed out before, when she composes polls like this, she doesn't like to hear the complaint that someone's best possible answer wasn't included, because she couldn't possibly include every possible answer.  I believe she's stated that such complaints are "boring".

But let's look at these possible answers:  There are only two that could be chosen by someone who thought Althouse made a mistake by closing comments.  Of those, one includes the overwrought "I feel aggrieved", promises that the reader will continue to read Althouse, and says that they'll do this "only grudgingly."

The other is, as she points out herself, contradictory, and could logically be chosen by no one.

More discussion after the jump.


Does Althouse actually suppose that 17% and 12% of respondents respectively would choose these two answers because they actually reflect how they feel?  I hope not.  All she should conclude from this is that at least 29% of her readers are, to one degree or another, pissed off about the comments being closed, or the way they were closed, or the events that led up to it; and/or they think that it's hurt the blog.  It's likely that many people saw the manipulative choices and chose not to participate.

In constructing a poll like this, if they're after valid results from which they could draw conclusions, the pollster should strive to partition the space, so that no one would say "I can't choose between A or B, I think they're both true" or "I don't see my answer here and none of these are wholly true."  Althouse might say that she's trying for more interesting poll results, and that her possible choices might be more idiosyncratic or creative in order to get those interesting results.  I'd call the results not interesting but invalid, if the answer space isn't partitioned.  (A set is partitioned when it's divided into subsets, the pairwise intersections of those subsets are empty, and the entire set is included in their union.)

I put up an example of an Althousian poll earlier.  There's not much to choose from there, if you're a Rangers fan.  Yes, I know, such barbarians don't deserve a choice.  But what should I conclude, if 60% of respondents choose A, and predict a cup for the Wings?  Not one hell of a lot, if I'm honest with myself.

And:  Confirmation bias much?  I haven't been to Althouse's blog much since the shut-down -- not because I no longer like her writing, or no longer find her interesting; but because it's like a big empty hall full of echoes as one very lonely person talks to herself.  It's desolate.  I'm sure many people disappointed by the closing of the comments, or pissed off by the seemingly endless stream of insults rained down on them in the final days (sad beta little men, whining about your meager money, no one cares about you nor should they, your porn and your masturbation, splooge stooge, I laugh in your scrunched up crying little face, let me taste your tears, you losers, blah blah blah blahhhh...paraphrasing) have not been back much lately either.  So you're not going to capture many people who are upset about the closing of comments in that poll.  If 29% chose one of the two negative responses, there's probably another 29% of former readers that would have, had they even known about the poll.

Some of Althouse's readers are anti-Althousians.  Not many of us here -- that's not what I'm talking about.  There are at least a dozen (and probably many more) leftist blogs out there that watch Althouse like a hawk and read her devotedly in the hope of catching her in some misstep.  These people would like nothing better than to pee on the smoldering wreckage of her blog.

I wonder how they voted.  That thought should take some of the luster from the 36% in the top two categories.

56 comments:

Methadras said...

I only went there because you posted it as a topic since I've stopped going there altogether. What I find funny is that the poll is not only spread across in terms of the selection statistics, but the selections clearly indicate confirmation bias with the professor affirming the conclusion while not opening the discussion box in the poll like she did the first time so it could be polluted by certain individuals in their commentary. Sort of like an offsite commentary pool. The while think smacks of guilt and a mistake from top to bottom. She fucked up and she knows it. She has no way to walk it back and she knows it without looking foolish. Shes trying to find and cherry pick some sort of silken thread out of this mess and she doesn't know how. I guess being stuck in a class for 9 months out of the year with little to no actual field experience as a lawyer has stunted her thinking processes. Well, that and being stuck with a transitory henpecked sub to dom cialis user for a husband. Things will grate after a while. Go figure.

The Dude said...

Baghdad Meade says things have never been better!

bagoh20 said...

"Who cares"?

Or if you like,

"What difference now does it make?"

edutcher said...

Pasta, you're getting into the kind of territory she was when things collapsed.

You don't have to write a doctoral dissertation on this. Once you say, "Does Althouse actually suppose that 17% and 12% of respondents respectively would choose these two answers because they actually reflect how they feel? I hope not", you've pretty much said it.

PS My answer would have been, "Since we were thrown out, I haven't been back except a couple of times when TNP said something about TOP".

rhhardin said...

More vulva choices.

pm317 said...

I think you should kill this post.

You guys don't seem to realize what you all have started here. It is a wonderful forum to share ideas and write funky stuff and you already have a good and loyal readership. Why the hell are you throwing it all away talking about Althouse and god forbid, her better half? Stop it. And throw Meade out (I am saying this only after watching his behavior on the last and other threads here -- I never thought they could both be so classless).

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It gets better, Sixty (if you do month-by-month since a year ago), but I won't pile on here (per pm's protest) with a link. Maybe elsewhere. God, I love visual data.

ndspinelli said...

Sixty, I made a comment a few days ago about dealing w/ compulsive liars as an investigator. Unless they can prove what they say, then they're lying. It's not complicated.

justagal said...

Look, it seems between both Althouse and Mead, they are just jerking this new place around.

She keeps doing twisted posts that just beg for some type of reaction from her former commenters.

Her husband, on the other had, is attacking individual members in such a vicious way that even those who wish to abide by Lem's wishes are very hard pressed to keep their cool.

I agree with pm317.

I've really come to appreciate this new place and want it to thrive.

Pastafarian said...

edutcher -- you're right, I beat this to death. I haven't quite gotten the hang of this yet.

pm317 -- I don't see how we're throwing anything away by discussing her. Yes, I know, you're just hoping for another post on the viscosity of tree sap. You need your pitch fix, and you need it bad. Well, I can't just come up with fascinating gems like that every time.

Meade said...

"And throw Meade out"

That's what most of you don't understand, pm317.

Blogger does not have a function for "throwing people out" or banning. If it did, I would have thrown all but two of you out 4 years ago.

rhhardin said...

The difference here is that the blog is entirely comments.

The outside the blog is the blog, here.

Fen said...

How awesome is Fen?

A) I think he is totally awesome
B) I think he is mildly awesome
C) I envy his awesomeness
D) I do NOT think he is awesome, but thats b/c I have penis envy

Meade said...

"ndspinelli said...
Sixty, I made a comment a few days ago about dealing w/ compulsive liars as an investigator. Unless they can prove what they say, then they're lying. It's not complicated."

Get someone to explain that graph to you two geniuses. And then crow at your own idiocy.

rhhardin said...

Meade should post the main article, perhaps, where it's off blog, in the inverted topology we have here.

The Dude said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

If somebody says that Althouse is a cold hearted idiot bitch, Meade should just say that she seems okay to him.

What's the problem.

Methadras said...

I think that if a Blue Floating Vagina Box was a selection it would win hands down. Or floating. I don't know.

rhhardin said...

I just think Althouse polls are better if they have more choices for genitals.

pm317 said...

If it did, I would have thrown all but two of you out 4 years ago.

You sad, sad, pathetic man.

Methadras said...

Pastafarian said...

edutcher -- you're right, I beat this to death. I haven't quite gotten the hang of this yet.

pm317 -- I don't see how we're throwing anything away by discussing her. Yes, I know, you're just hoping for another post on the viscosity of tree sap. You need your pitch fix, and you need it bad. Well, I can't just come up with fascinating gems like that every time.


I was really hoping for a treatise on the growth and death rate of, using calculus of course, of yeast during the fermentation process of a whole foods store artisan bread that she fancies. Thank you.

Meade said...

And the two know exactly who they are.

Methadras said...

rhhardin said...

I just think Althouse polls are better if they have more choices for genitals.


I suspect that there is a lot of cock block over at cialishouse. Unless they post a porno or something.

test said...

Meade said...
I would have thrown all but two of you out 4 years ago.


It seems your desires were met then. So you're here being pissy with people...why? Is this supposed to be a demonstration of how bad commenting ruins a blog?

rhhardin said...

Sometimes Meade will probably be too busy and Althouse could step in and post the off-blog main article here.

The Dude said...

There are no tanks in Baghdad!

ndspinelli said...

This self destruction is classic Shakespeare. If it were almost anyone else it would be somewhat sad. The phoneys always show themselves when it's gut check time.

Fen said...

What was the date of the closing? May or June?

Meade said...

Pastafarian said...
"edutcher -- you're right, I beat this to death. I haven't quite gotten the hang of this yet."

When you catch yourself writing, "edutcher, you're right..."

Stop, take a few seconds to think, and ask yourself...

Oh nevermind.

Fen said...

I hear DARPA is working on a blogging format that allows you to ignore/ban commenters.

Should be ready by 1994.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Sitemeter don't lie.

You mad bro?

ndspinelli said...

Prez, Only Meade knows how to read a graph.

ndspinelli said...

He stands on his head and it looks great.

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

In politics we recognize a push poll and a real poll. But that is when you are trying to actually measure a snap shot in time of where the voters are on a select number of candidates. A good pollster gets a good result in the end, rather than trying to influence an outcome. Of course, just observing something changes the probabilities of an outcome (which matters if things are close)...so it is something that needs to be guarded against (but can only be minimized, not completely avoided).

A blog poll is rarely scientific but it is supposed to be entertaining. If it is entertaining it is successful. If not entertaining, well it is not.

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

President Mom Jeans, tell Meade you are not Fred4Pres please. Thanks.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

As I have several times in the past, I would like to state emphatically that I have never posted on any blog, including Althouse, as Fred4Pres or under any other name for that matter.

Phil 314 said...

We all need to move on.

Things change; life goes on.

How'bout a few more beer pictures.

I'd like to see Dogfish Head 120 minute ale since I can seem to find anywhere out here in the desert.

And maybe some of that good Wisconsin cheese.

KCFleming said...

@Phil

Hear, hear!

The Crack Emcee said...

Meade,

When you catch yourself writing, "edutcher, you're right..."

Stop, take a few seconds to think, and ask yourself...


Jesus, this man is as clueless as Ann when it comes to seeing himself in his words,...

garage mahal said...

I get so lonesome
'Specially when I am all alone
I get so lonesome
'Specially when I am all alone
And the reason I get so lonesome people
Is I don't like spending time on my own

You can read my letter 'mama
But you ain't never gonna read my mind
You can read my letter 'mama
But you ain't never gonna read my mind

Obvious Blues

-Bob Brozman

Freeman Hunt said...

Garage! You made it!

Evi L. Bloggerlady said...

President Mom Jeans, thanks for that. I missed your previous posts about this.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Eeewwww! Who left all those yellow stains upthread?

Patrick said...

Hey garage, good to see you.

Did you ever think.that Ritmo would be more popular Meade with this bunch?

Hope you are well.

garage mahal said...

@Freeman
Thanks! Good to see you too, as always. Lem did sorta invite me? [even though this is a Pastafarian post].

And I'm actually not lonesome, that was a subtle dig at someone else posting here, [as is my custom]. I just realized I've been subtweeting on blogger for 7 years!

Anonymous said...

Oh I'm so glad my buddy Garage is here.

garage mahal said...

I and I are de roots...

The Crack Emcee said...

GARAGE!

YEAH, BABY!

You disgust me (wink) but am I glad to see you!

Now, it truly wouldn't be as good without you,...

The Crack Emcee said...

And Inga's here, too - with an avatar of herself!

It doesn't get any better than this,...

Anonymous said...

Yeah, whatevah.

Chip Ahoy said...

In that movie clip where the guy wakes up with 'balls' written on his forehead and a knight walks in and eats Fruit Loops, the light that pokes through the holes, that is a striking visual cinematographic device, but it does not make sense. The only way for beams of light puncturing at angles as sword blades, would require a separate light source for each puncture. They're going at all angles. The sun, bright vehicle lights, a Klieg, whatever, would result in beams all at the same angle. When the light source moves so do the beams, in unison.

If the holes were made from bullets and intended to convey the house is surrounded and attacked from different directions, the beams tracking the path of the bullets, that is false, the beams follow the path of the light source, not the source of the bullet.

Please do not be fooled by these ridiculous depictions of false light beam sources, they can only mislead.

That is all.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Garage is here!

Good to hear from you.

Unknown said...

I made a number of the same points in this post to Ann in an email. She responded in much the same way that she has publicly on her blog.

You made a number of the points I did to her -- terrible poll structure, confirmation bias, etc.

And it's even worse than you point out -- she updated her poll with a statement that people responding to the only two pro-comments options available - push her against comments. So effectively she eliminates any "pro comments" option from her poll post-hoc, if those people care about comments coming back at Althouse. Basically, she's threatening those who dare to pick those categories with "YOU ARE ONLY MAKING THIS WORSE!"

So, in short, yeah -- meaningless poll. Actually, worse than meaningless...as it provides her a false sense of affirmation in the choice to turn off comments.

Unknown said...

I don't think the flame war currently on going between Meade and some of the former Althouse commenters is productive or covering anyone in glory.

Anyone up for an armistice?

Chip Ahoy said...

Oh man, I just thought of something weird.

Goes like this:

I was just thinking my real-life training did not prepare me for the old house to taunt me, or the person I loved who abruptly cut me out haunt me. The whole deal was don't look back, just don't. It's too sad either way, still there, or gone, or simply changed, it's too sad to bear so don't do that.

Except once.

Dad did keep a house.

And man, did that ever turn out to be a pain in the a-dangerous curve ahead, on account of it being in another state.

That was kind of stupid because you have to rely on other people and since you are removed they take advantage and you cannot trust. We did go back down there and look again and fix a few things. And that was a total bummer. So ultimately that adds to the training.

And stands in contrast to this guy I know who lives in Mexico in Winter and here in Summer. He had fourteen houses in Denver at the time he bought mine, and I'd see him all over at places like Ace Hardware and Home Depot, all the time, and I'd go, "Dude, wash your glasses already and your vision will improve."

"What?"

You could always tell when he was painting with a roller. Like a ceiling. Tiny dots all over his glasses.

Also has places in Mexico. The thing is, they're bunched together. In one city. Here and there, so two cities, back and forth. I introduced him to my brother and he wanted to do that too and he's very good at repairs, plumbing, electrical, you name it, but in the end it is constant problems and heartaches, and tons and tons of work, you really have to be up for that.

So this guy buys two places adjoining in Mexico at a place called El Dorado. Oddly, that means a type of fish, an ugly one at that, not a car. in the old section of Puerto Vallarta, which means "port" not "door" and is the name of a guy which is why is Vallarta and not Vallarto. The places come with a built-in dining seating arrangement, poured concrete seats, you put cushions on them, and tile table so it's utterly permanent, built right into the place, and since there are two apartments connected he only needed one of those things and he was

emphatic about that.

But they built two anyway.

On account of, you know, translations and stuff. Spanglish doesn't cut it all the time because everybody is so agreeable.

So one had to be removed. So it was chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip chip and so on for a whole week.

He's the guy who told me "Say gracias, you rude asshole."

Always. Always say gracias to everybody or you are a rude asshole worse than Mussolini's sister's second husband's younger brother, and he was a real asshole.

So I do.

deborah said...

Hey, Garage!