Friday, July 19, 2013

How bad is the IRS scandal?

This story hasn’t gained the traction I expected.  That’s an understatement – I thought this sort of abuse of power would unite left and right in self-righteous indignation.

Lurking leftist commenters, I summon thee.  Uncloak.

Maybe I’m naïve.  There are a half dozen scandals that have left the Obama administration unscathed, each of which I would have guessed would bring it down – or at least bring down its poll numbers.

But this weaponization of the IRS…it’s different.


If you’ve never been in the IRS’s crosshairs, you might not realize the power that they hold.  They can come into your house with armed men and take your belongings, and you have to prove that you deserve them back.  They can shutter your business and imprison you, and you’re presumed guilty.  The onus of proof rests on you, the accused.  In many ways the IRS is all-powerful and beyond appeal.



And now they are corrupt.

Where they might have made honest mistakes in the past, now they go after defenseless citizens purposefully, because those citizens took a political stand that those bureaucrats (and their union, and their masters) oppose.

I honestly expected some of our leftist brothers and sisters in the commentariat to stand up and cross party lines on this issue, to push back against this oppression.  They didn’t.  They rallied behind Team Blue, and bleated that all 501Cs should be taxed, that Boosh did it too, and so on.  And beneath their denial, I think, was the attitude:  Chill out, greedy wingers, it’s only money.

It’s only money.  That’s a great disconnect between right and left.  The left’s “it’s only money” sneer is common among those for whom money is easily obtained:  The spoiled children of privilege whose resentment of their parents forms their entire philosophy and springs from their own shame; and spoiled children of entitlements, who replace contempt for their parents with contempt of wealth generators.  True liberalism is dead; in its place is contrarianism born of teen angst.

Conservatives realize:  We all earn money by trading pieces of our life for it.  I’d rather be at home playing catch with my daughter, but instead I’ll trade the next several hours for a few bucks.  If time is money, and the seconds of our lives finite, then when you rob a man of his money, you’re taking years of life from him.  The will to hold on to one’s own money isn’t greed – it’s self-preservation.

Now, I don’t want to come across as some sort of victimized beta-male or overwrought ninny.  They’re not rounding us up into killing fields.  That’s never going to happen here.  (Not because we’re somehow morally superior or more courageous than Cambodians – but because we, as individuals, are better armed.)  This isn’t a holocaust.  But it’s about as close to a death camp as they could get:  They’re oppressing dissent by using the full power of the state to subjugate ordinary citizens, in order to maintain a system that takes years of life (money) from their opponents at the point of a gun, so that they can give that money, those years, to their allies, skimming a little off the top for themselves.

So how bad is this, compared to, say, Watergate?  Watergate was nothing.  Watergate was aggressive campaign research.  The victims of Watergate were themselves professional politicians.  The victims of this IRS abuse are ordinary citizens.

And how high does this go?  Apparently all the way to the top.

Tell me something that any administration has done, that’s been worse, short of The Trail of Tears.  (Note that this too was a policy of a Democrat, by the way.)

75 comments:

Swifty Quick said...

If it were a Republican president articles of impeachment would already be passed. This is where we're at nowadays.

ndspinelli said...

Congress doesn't have the resources or the hammer to do the investigation required on this type of matter. A special prosecutor needs to be appointed who can have the FBI and other resources @ their disposal. I don't like special prosecutors for the most part. However, this case screams for one.

Joe Schmoe said...

Pastafarian, I love reading your comments, and now you've done a kickass post.

When this stuff started coming out, I expected the lack of outcry from the left. The left seems to have this smug opinion that since they by and large cleave to a hard-to-pin-down philosophy of moral relativism, that they don't have to meet the same moral standards that the right has apparently set for themselves. So they can do all manner of unethical and even illegal stuff, and then resort to all of the "so-and-so did it too" and "we don't have clearly drawn moral obligations so it's a nuanced gray area."

The ends justify the means; they think they can silence the Tea Party through any means possible because in their fevered minds they've ginned up the Tea Party to be so evil. They try to imagine that it's really the result of a universal poetic justice rather then their own destructive intentions.

Hagar said...

The left - MSM and Democrat politicians, and not effectively opposed by Republicans - have been successful in keeping the publicity to the harassment of the "tea party" groups, which is complicated, especially when you fudge the language to "additional scrutiny," and most Democrats think this is well deserved anyway.

That much they can dismiss as just borderline dirty politics, and little mention have been made of the flat-out criminal activities of sharing Republican donors' tax return information with Democrat action groups and other Federal agencies and calling down Federal strikes - OSHA, NLRB, EPA, etc. -on individuals and their businesses.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

The radical left cannot face it's own corruption - so they lash out. We must stand with Issa.

Joe Schmoe said...

I am disappointed by the lack of public outcry. There's so much apathy. As long as they're not in the crosshairs, whether it's this IRS thing, or Fast & Furious, or NSA spying, or EPA targeting, then people just don't seem to care.

I hope the Congressional Oversight Committee stays on it.

Hagar said...

Special prosecutors are appointed and they and their staffs paid through the Department of Justice.

This Attorney General and his department, including the subsidiary agencies, such as the FBI, are not going to pursue any such prosecution.

Chennaul said...

Maybe I’m naïve.


***********

Dude.

Chennaul said...

We've reached a weird inversion where a bad economy actually "Works" for Democrats.

When too many are fearful that they need the safety net, too many are already there and less then 50% pay taxes....


Then on top of that you implement ObamaCare which gains control of something like 15% of the economy...

Anyways--it's a sad state of affairs--one that "works" to the Democrat advantage.

Chennaul said...

What was Fen's Law again--

The Left never believes the things they lecture about.

deborah said...

Pasta, thanks for a great post.

The problem is that whether libs or conservatives are in, they hold the reins at the time. This is not about left and right, but power run amok to the point of oligarchy.

edutcher said...

Welcome aboard, Pasta.

Keep in mind, dog days coupled with the backwash from Saint Skittles.

Give it some time. Watergate took 2 years.

madawaskan said...

We've reached a weird inversion where a bad economy actually "Works" for Democrats.

When the Choom gang tells the Motor City, "Drop dead", it's not working for them. "Corruption that works" is supposed to keep the streets clean and the hoodla under control - not to mention protecting their pals.

The Demos are so bad off, they can't even help their own.

Critical mass is coming.

Too many Democrat bastions will go under.

There'll be a raid where Big Sis' MRAPs and the weaponized IRS will have their own Waco.

Choomcare will kill about 2 1/2 million jobs.

edutcher said...

Pastafarian said...

Now, I don’t want to come across as some sort of victimized beta-male or overwrought ninny. They’re not rounding us up into killing fields. That’s never going to happen here. (Not because we’re somehow morally superior or more courageous than Cambodians – but because we, as individuals, are better armed.)

Let's remember 2 billion rounds of ammo and MRAPs. That's not to play "The A-Team".

And people have hinted at such things as camps. Choom has his Civilian Defense Corpse. And the Davidians weren't even armed, but that didn't stop Willie from gunning them down.

Every time somebody says, "It can't happen here!", check what the Lefties are saying.

Matt Sablan said...

It's not just "dissent." They targeted political opponents who dared run against them (in Christine O'Donnell.) At first, incidents like Palin's email being cracked or Joe the Plumber's personal records being leaked just seemed like one-off craziness.

Not any more.

The government's enforcement arms are to be assumed inherently corrupt until a great, cleansing wind empties it out again.

Matt Sablan said...

"Tell me something that any administration has done, that’s been worse, short of The Trail of Tears."

-- Japanese internment was pretty bad.

Methadras said...

The IRS scandal is very bad. Why? Well, it puts all of us in jepordy. This is what big brother is all about. It is the culmination that government can target you for your political associations when that is strictly constitutionally forbidden and they get away with it? Why? Well, because the government is a punk ass bitch and it stands there and looks you in the eye and says, "What are you gonna do about?" with arms outstretch, taunting you to dare to try. You, this tiny little ant against the giant, bloated, fat, obese pig that is government with the near infinite tax dollars to fuck you over. Nothing will be done because nothing can be done. There is no way the tax code will be replaced to severely curtail the IRS with something like a flat tax and there will be an even bigger zero chance, in this country of instituting a fair tax that would effectively neuter the IRS into obsolescence. No one will go to jail. No one will be fired. No one will be demoted. In fact, I predict that those involved will probably be given raises and/or promotions.

Matt Sablan said...

Ok, the great cleansing wind statement might be a bit hyperbole. But, a lot of folks could be forced into early retirement, at the least.

Methadras said...

Matthew Sablan said...

It's not just "dissent." They targeted political opponents who dared run against them (in Christine O'Donnell.) At first, incidents like Palin's email being cracked or Joe the Plumber's personal records being leaked just seemed like one-off craziness.

Not any more.

The government's enforcement arms are to be assumed inherently corrupt until a great, cleansing wind empties it out again.


Kinda makes certain journalist ending dead and the conspiracy theories that government was involved seem not so implausible anymore.

deborah said...

Ed:
"There'll be a raid where Big Sis' MRAPs and the weaponized IRS will have their own Waco."

Yes, but these weapons will be held by red-blooded Americans...will they realize they have the choice not to act?

Joe Schmoe said...

The problem is that whether libs or conservatives are in, they hold the reins at the time. This is not about left and right, but power run amok to the point of oligarchy.

Deborah, cute profile sketch by the way, I think it's more than that. There's a huge imbalance between what's acceptable between the left and the right. Hate to throw out so shopworn a phrase, but if this was happening under Bush, the outcry could be seen from outer space. People would've been frogmarched and perpwalked out of government offices and straight to jail.

This IRS thing is huge yet being met with a collective shrug from many. They are influencing elections and trying to silence dissenting views. It's not just political; since the majority of IRS employees are public union members and Democrat voters, they are working to make sure you don't shut off their gravy train. It's unconscionable.

Rant over.

Methadras said...

Matthew Sablan said...

"Tell me something that any administration has done, that’s been worse, short of The Trail of Tears."

-- Japanese internment was pretty bad.


Democrats do really good work at enslaving people. They have a long history of doing that. Even today.

William said...

I think the larger scandal is that it is not a larger scandal. I would say that an IRS audit is a tad more invasive than a stop and frisk pat down from a cop, but stop and frisk has received far more coverage (told in tones of righteous indignation) than the IRS controversy. That's how they describe it--not scandal but controversy......They're winning, but the plus side of mortality is that I'll probably die before the blight reaches Detroit dimensions.

Joe Schmoe said...

I would be interested to hear a Democrat's take on this whole affair. I think I'd be just as pissed off if a Republican or Independent were in office.

Paddy O said...

"incidents like Palin's email being cracked or Joe the Plumber's personal records being leaked"

Or Ryan's divorce records unsealed.

That this is a scandal even a little bit is good. And I think it is, though not in as public a way for the Left. They don't want to give ammunition to the Right so they won't make it a big discussion, but I get the sense there's a lot of chipped away support.

And Democrats know it is a scandal and those in power are doing everything they can to punt it aside.

It's not just politics, it strikes at the heart of this country. It's corruption at the heart of government, something both sides can do, and it leads to resignation and passivity, like in so many countries where corruption is expected and part of doing business.

Matt Sablan said...

Also: Bush had the -opportunity- to abuse the IRS/go Fast and Furious. He did not. This is clearly not just a "who is in power will be corrupt" problem.

Matt Sablan said...

(Bush actually nipped both in the bud when he had the chance.)

Chennaul said...

We've reached a weird inversion where a bad economy actually "Works" for Democrats.

When the Choom gang tells the Motor City, "Drop dead", it's not working for them. "Corruption that works" is supposed to keep the streets clean and the hoodla under control - not to mention protecting their pals.

The Demos are so bad off, they can't even help their own.

Critical mass is coming.

Too many Democrat bastions will go under.

There'll be a raid where Big Sis' MRAPs and the weaponized IRS will have their own Waco.

Choomcare will kill about 2 1/2 million jobs.

July 19, 2013 at 1:14 PM


**********

edutcher


Thanks.

I've kind of hit the wall and I can't see away out or around what Obama and pals have instituted.

So I really value a different perspective on it.

Synova said...

The IRS... the EPA... the CPS...

The parts of government that can destroy you and steal your children ALL abandon the "innocent until proven guilty" principle and force citizens to prove they are innocent.

People really ARE terrified of the IRS and simply the risk of gaining IRS attention is an assault on liberty and free speech.

People really should lose their jobs. The person who accessed Christine McDonald's (if I'm getting her name right) tax info should lose his job. The person who accessed Joe the Plumber's government info should lose her job. And it should be a lifetime ban from working for any public office or organization. The people who either directed or approved a 100% review of any group called "Tea Party" without the native common sense to adhere to an *appearance* of impartiality by thinking... huh... maybe we should put a progressive tag in this list to cover our asses... they should permanently lose their jobs too because they never even considered their duty to be impartial. (Honest, how hard would it be to say "also review 100% of groups with the word progressive in the name.")

Other than that... maybe donations to organizations shouldn't be taxed... none of them. Or maybe they all should be taxed. But there is something wrong with putting any government organization in charge of deciding between them.

Any church or organization, be it a Tea Party group or anyone else that collects donations is collecting money that has already been taxed. Why should we tax what amount to gifts? Does it really matter what the gift is for?

When the church or fan convention or community organization buys services with that money it will be taxed again. There will be sales tax on the carpet and new furnace put in the church (or ought to be) and tax on the salaries of the film crew doing the political ads, etc.,

We wouldn't have these problems if the government wasn't so pathologically afraid that it will miss taking it's cut off the top every single last time money changes hands.

KCFleming said...

When considering the US under Obama, I vacillate between rage and despair.

Not for me, as I am old enough that I can ride out this clusterfuck, or die trying. Who cares? I'm nothing.

But my kids have to live a long time under the thumb of a dictator. They'll manage, others have lived through worse.

But my God it makes me sad for them. Like if only I could take a bullet for them, it'd be okay. No such luck.

I blame Noonan, McArdle, Althouse, Buckly, Barone, and all those nincompoops who voted for this disaster.

The kudzu of government has always been a danger, but the last six years it has morphed into fascism; the real kind, not the college epithet.

Matt Sablan said...

On the IRS: I always thought the "pay first, then litigate" rule was inherently unconstitutional. It would be like saying: "Serve your time, then we'll try you."

Synova said...

Hah... O'Donell

Or whatever.

Methadras said...

deborah said...

Yes, but these weapons will be held by red-blooded Americans...will they realize they have the choice not to act?


That all depends on how they fared in the leftist educational system they were brought up under. You push enough of the old guard out and populate the upper echelons with the new leftist thinkers and you might have enough influence that patriotic duty will be trumped enough to give orders to the enlisted to open fire on their own. Do not underestimate the power of leftism. It is an evil stain on the face of the earth.

The Dude said...

My theory is that no non-democrat president will ever be elected again. The levers of power are all in the hands of corrupt apparatchiks.

It's not who votes, it's who counts the votes.

It was a nice country for a while, but we couldn't keep it.

Methadras said...

madawaskan said...

We've reached a weird inversion where a bad economy actually "Works" for Democrats.

When too many are fearful that they need the safety net, too many are already there and less then 50% pay taxes....


Then on top of that you implement ObamaCare which gains control of something like 15% of the economy...

Anyways--it's a sad state of affairs--one that "works" to the Democrat advantage


Want to see how lifelong leftists govern? Look at Detroit for your example. Now spread that wet blanket across the US and you will see what you are facing from leftism and the minions that carry out that ideology.

edutcher said...

deborah said...

There'll be a raid where Big Sis' MRAPs and the weaponized IRS will have their own Waco.

Yes, but these weapons will be held by red-blooded Americans...will they realize they have the choice not to act?


I'm assuming a lot of these abuses are carried out by people who can be "trusted" by the bigs to fall on their swords, if necessary.

The problem is that the number of trustees is finite (one reason the Red Chinese agreed to an armistice in the Korean War). Sooner or later there will be a witness.

Matt Sablan said...

"You push enough of the old guard out and populate the upper echelons with the new leftist thinkers and you might have enough influence that patriotic duty will be trumped enough to give orders to the enlisted to open fire on their own. Do not underestimate the power of leftism."

-- I'm not that negative. That won't happen.

Chennaul said...

Look at Detroit for your example.

*******

Hell no thanks. I landed in Midway once and drove though the neighborhoods around that part ofChicago at night.

Safety tip--that only found out later--O'Hare.

KCFleming said...

@Sixty Grit

The good news is that the cycle of socialism is about 3 generations before it all collapses.

I think we have completed nearly 2 generations already.

That's part of why there are so many post-apocalyptic stories these days. People are sensing the end of something. Their anxiety becomes science fiction, but reflects the current turmoil.

Joe Schmoe said...

Like if only I could take a bullet for them, it'd be okay.

Pogo, wouldn't the PC thing to say be "if only I had aborted my kids before I had them, it'd be okay."

Basta! said...

"It’s only money. That’s a great disconnect between right and left. . . Conservatives realize: We all earn money by trading pieces of our life for it. I’d rather be at home playing catch with my daughter, but instead I’ll trade the next several hours for a few bucks. If time is money, and the seconds of our lives finite, then when you rob a man of his money, you’re taking years of life from him."

Excellent analysis, P. The above, to me, is the essence of the matter, though I couldn't have articulated it as well as you did.

deborah said...

Joe Schmoe at 1:35 and Matt Sablan at 1:39, I stand corrected.

But Matt, even if conservatives are less bad, e.g., Fast and Furious, we're still on a neo-liberal juggernaut to a unitary executive, MRAP-equipped Homeland Security national security state.

(Thanks, Joe, my daughter drew it :)

KCFleming said...

@Joe Schmoe

Exactly.

'I sometimes wish they'd never been born at all

Carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters
'

Chennaul said...

Basta! said...
"It’s only money. That’s a great disconnect between right and left. . . Conservatives realize: We all earn money by trading pieces of our life for it. I’d rather be at home playing catch with my daughter, but instead I’ll trade the next several hours for a few bucks. If time is money, and the seconds of our lives finite, then when you rob a man of his money, you’re taking years of life from him."


*************

That reminds me of a what I thought was a brilliant part of Randy Barnett's anti-ObamaCare argument.

The compelling an action vs. inaction argument.

IIRC the argument went something like--you can outlaw eating broccoli and that doesn't take up much of a citizen's time but if you start compelling action as in:

you must go on the treadmill 30 minutes a day, you must read a book once a month--that can end up curtailing an individual's freedom rather rapidly.

edutcher said...

Remember (Godwin Alert) got away with it for the 30s because people thought things were getting better.

No chance of that here.

Pogo said...

The good news is that the cycle of socialism is about 3 generations before it all collapses.

I think we have completed nearly 2 generations already.


With 12 - 15 year olds having kids?

If you start at 1970, we're just about at the end of the 3rd generation.

If you figure the era of the "welfare queen" started in the 50s, we've hit it.

And they can't keep pitting white against black against Hispanic forever without a civil war starting.

And I think the death of Saint Skittles is one of the opening skirmishes.

KCFleming said...

@edutcher

I didn't say it was going to end well!

deborah said...

Meth:
"That all depends on how they fared in the leftist educational system they were brought up under. You push enough of the old guard out and populate the upper echelons with the new leftist thinkers and you might have enough influence that patriotic duty will be trumped enough to give orders to the enlisted to open fire on their own. Do not underestimate the power of leftism. It is an evil stain on the face of the earth."

It's doubtful that Stalinism could occur here, and we can be relieved that conservatives raise up their children differently. It's
interesting to compare what you say here:

"Want to see how lifelong leftists govern? Look at Detroit for your example. Now spread that wet blanket across the US and you will see what you are facing from leftism and the minions that carry out that ideology."

with Pogo:

"The good news is that the cycle of socialism is about 3 generations before it all collapses.

I think we have completed nearly 2 generations already."


bagoh20 said...

I'm hoping for a tax rebellion so vast that total amnesty will be required afterward. I'll buy everyone a new car. Everyone who's nice to me that is, or anyone who threatens to give Mary my address.

What the hell am I saying? If that happens we can all buy our own car. Sure, IRS employees won't get the audio/visual resources they had, or any fancy meals or vacations (I mean seminars), but something has to give.

Obama voters will be shit out of luck pretty much across the board, but love is all you need anyway. Love, granola, a little weed, and all six strings on your guitar......, and toilet paper,....and hair conditioner, but that's it,... and...

Joe Schmoe said...

Shit just got real. Obama is saying not only that his hypothetical son could have look like Trayvon, but Trayvon Martin could've been him 35 years ago. The gravitational pull on that guy's ego...

Birches said...

We all earn money by trading pieces of our life for it. I’d rather be at home playing catch with my daughter, but instead I’ll trade the next several hours for a few bucks.

This.

bagoh20 said...

Except that Trayvon wasn't half-white like Obama. That would be Zimmerman.

Methadras said...

Joe Schmoe said...

Shit just got real. Obama is saying not only that his hypothetical son could have look like Trayvon, but Trayvon Martin could've been him 35 years ago. The gravitational pull on that guy's ego...


Obama, the vacuous president. No one can say so much and say nothing all at the same time. Black holes shudder in fear at coming close to his ego.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Taking away your money is not just taking away your time, but also your influence.

I can't spend or give away money to entities that I would like to support if the IRS has already confiscated it.

edutcher said...

Pogo said...

I didn't say it was going to end well!

As I've been saying, Weimar Republic ring a bell?

And that may be the good outcome.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

By the way, Pasta, glad you are a contributor here. I've always enjoyed your comments.

test said...

deborah said...
with Pogo:

"The good news is that the cycle of socialism is about 3 generations before it all collapses.

I think we have completed nearly 2 generations already."


I think this optimistic. We're only preparing to start the cycle.

Roger J. said...

Excellent topic with excellent thoughts--I always thought myself as an optimist--but I totally agree with pogo and joe schmoe--this great county--the shining city on the hill--as morphed into Detroit. Give the low info voters their electronic pacifiers--it like Roman bread circuses. I don't regret being a soldier when I was younger, but now? I'd rather spend my last days in the north woods canoeing and camping.

This country hasn't hit bottom yet--but it will.

edutcher said...

And it will take hitting bottom before anything improves.

As I said, critical mass is coming.

edutcher said...

And speaking of it has to get worse before it gets better:

A Meshuganah judge rules Detroit's application for bankruptcy unconstitutional because (are you ready?) it disses our Fearless Fuhrer, who delivered the Motor City from bankruptcy.

This and ChoomCare. The metaphors just keep on comin'

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

But this weaponization of the IRS…it’s different.

Great line Pasta.

Methadras said...

Matthew Sablan said...

"You push enough of the old guard out and populate the upper echelons with the new leftist thinkers and you might have enough influence that patriotic duty will be trumped enough to give orders to the enlisted to open fire on their own. Do not underestimate the power of leftism."

-- I'm not that negative. That won't happen.


Matthew, I kinda sorta don't have that negativity either, but it's there in the back of my mind that this is what might ultimately be going on. The vast majority of our armed forces, I believe would not fire on their fellow citizens, but certain things make me question the validity of that belief.

I don't know if you remember back in 1995 the Clinton Administration there was a widely publicized questionnaire that was given to several hundred marines at 29 Palms on whether or not they would or could fire on their fellow citizens, family, or friends if ordered to.

Via free republic: "hundreds of Marines at 29 Palms, California were given a survey as part of an academic project by Navy Lieutenant Commander Ernest Guy Cunningham which asked the Marines if they would, “Fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the United States government.”

The survey was subsequently leaked because many of the Marines who took it were shocked by the tone of the question.

The US Military has clearly outlined innumerable civil emergency scenarios under which troops would be authorized to fire on U.S. citizens.

In July 2012, the process by which this could take place was made clear in a leaked US Army Military Police training manual for “Civil Disturbance Operations” (PDF) dating from 2006. Similar plans were also outlined in an updated manual released in 2010 entitled FM 3-39.40 Internment and Resettlement Operations.

The 2006 document outlines how military assets will be used to “help local and state authorities to restore and maintain law and order” in the event of mass riots, civil unrest or a declaration of martial law.

On page 20 of the manual, rules regarding the use of “deadly force” in confronting “dissidents” on American soil are made disturbingly clear with the directive that a, “Warning shot will not be fired.”

ampersand said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
edutcher said...

We'll have a few Wacos and Ruby Ridges before long.

All that ammo and all that anger won't wait.

deborah said...

Marshal:
" think this optimistic. We're only preparing to start the cycle."

I agree, there's a lot of life left in this old nag (America) before the middle class is wrung dry and the lower classes are cut off from government aid. It's a slow train a-comin'. And who knows, maybe we will morph into a backwater that slowly re-learns civic responsibility and ...oh, screw it. We are ALL part of this culture of violence and degradation, watching movies like Kill Bill, Reservoir Dogs, and Saw. To paraphrase TS Eliot, liberalism destroys itself by crawling up its own backside.

It's the fruits of technology; the computers, the video games, the porn, the spying, the drones, the GPS's, the Kindles, the cloud, the the smart phones, the effing google glass, the dna data bases, the head phones. We're going, going, gone, my babies. What men or gods are these?

bagoh20 said...

Well, if it's all shit anyway, who cares if it blows up or rots?

You know the real optimist realizes that a giant solid rock and metal eraser is on the way and when it gets here and hits at 40 miles per second - just think about that: it's 100 miles away and then you take 2 seconds to rub your eyes to see better and boom!, too late.

Anyway it hits, and no more bad economy, no more racism or oppression in the world, no more starvation, or AIDS, or movies, or books, or art, or music, no more history, no Hitler, no Budda, no Cesar, no Jesus. We never were here. We are less even than dream you had last night about the penguin and Liberace. We are not even history. We be gone.

It's Friday! Woohooo!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

This seems to be one reason why this particular 'scandal' is not going anywhere.

bagoh20 said...

AReasonableMan,

You got to be suspicious of that now. It doesn't even make sense. What's the motivation? The IRS is full of self-hating Democrats?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

bagoh20 said...
You got to be suspicious of that now. It doesn't even make sense. What's the motivation? The IRS is full of self-hating Democrats?


It is this politicized polarized way of thinking that most people in the general public don't have. It was reasonable for the IRS to be dubious of the tax exempt status of these new political groups. Personally I think it is a con and they should all be denied tax exempt status.

bagoh20 said...

I believe that the IRS is dominated by Democrats and people who hate the Tea Party. I also think enough of those people would be fanatical and unprincipled enough to target them unfairly and even to do it to affect an election. I mean, how do you explain the well documented, ridiculous questionnaires and unreasonable timelines created for the conservative groups. It defies and innocent explanation.

I also think that if the IRS was run by a vast majority of right-wingers that there would be abuses the other way. It's human nature.

I doubt we would agree on this part though. I believe the right wing organization would be more respectful of the taxpayers and the constitution. Just from knowing lots of people from both sides. There is a kind of justified cheating mindset more common on the left. I don't see a bunch of Tea Partiers having elaborate junkets on the taxpayers money like that. It's just out of character.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

bagoh20 said...
I believe that the IRS is dominated by Democrats and people who hate the Tea Party.


Half the population doesn't vote and some large fraction of the rest just vote whatever their parents voted. Most people are pretty apolitical.

The office was created in Cincinnati to take it out of the political hothouse of DC and put it in the mid-west, a state that is at least as conservative as it is liberal. This seems to have been a good decision. I think your take on the matter is unnecessarily paranoid, given what we know at the moment.

deborah said...

That was a penguin and Leibniz.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

This is another take on the matter.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I don't disagree that the IRS records can be used as political weapon. If Christine O’Donnell is to be believed, then this has already happened. State Republican officials accessed her tax records in order to help Republican Michael Castle in a primary. Apparently IRS records can be accessed by some non-IRS personnel. This kind of thing should be relatively easy to police in that there should be an electronic trail associated with viewing individual records. Whether the political will exists to ensure that adequate policing occurs is another matter of course.

bagoh20 said...

"I think your take on the matter is unnecessarily paranoid..."

I don't even have any weed, so that's not possible.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

bagoh20 said...
I don't even have any weed, so that's not possible.


You can always get some Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea.

Leland said...

This notion that "new information nor previously released" by the IRS isn't as telling as the weeks of testimony by Tea Party organizations with letters and documents discussing abuses. Unless ARM, you have Occupy show up with a request from the IRS not to have prayer in their organization or something similiar; I find the "new information" to be suspect at best.