Saturday, July 27, 2013

At the Shifting Sands Coffeehouse

Same place, different lines.

75 comments:

virgil xenophon said...

Old? I resemble that remark! Looks just like all the ones I grew up with, lol.

edutcher said...

That's the same map we had back in '21.

And we liked it!

And, on the "phony" scandals beat,

One of the 30 rescued from Benghazi waited 20 hours with a shattered leg for evac while His Awesomeness rested up for his fundraiser in Vegas.

Paddy O said...

Oh, the lines were always there, they just were trying to insist that people of the same color were of the same mind.

Everyone is free of envy there in green Soviet Union, a happy people sharing their goods. Over in Czechoslovakia, everyone has the same blue face, socialism is for the people! The gentle pink of Yugoslavia shows the soothing nature of the government rule.

West and East Germany are mostly the same, just some slight differences. They're a bit hazier in the West, of course.

It's a fact, the mapmakers don't lie, you're one with the people of your color.

Until you aren't.

Sydney said...

I love old maps. Love to see how things divided up in ages past. I have a map of our little corner of the world from 1796, drawn by a Moravian missionary. A couple of miles from where I live there's a line that draws the border between Indian territory and U.S. territory. And there's an Indian trail marked out that goes past where our house is now, and on down to Pittsburgh. I love looking at it an imagining what it must have been like here back then.

chickelit said...

I recall seeing a post- WW2 German atlas map which showed large swathes of Poland labeled zur Zeit unter polnische Verwaltung -- "for the time being under Polish administration."

I still see Lebensraum.

Sydney said...

Can I use this coffeehouse to ask a question that I have always wanted to ask? It's about the etiology of this commenter community. I always wondered how Althouse had attracted such a diverse population of commenters. Other sites had more visitors and were more well known - The New Republic, The New York Times, Wall Street Journal's Opinion page, National Review, etc, but their comment pages were always the same people over and over again, the same view points - nothing like the diversity at TOP. I had this theory - that the original commenters were gathered from email listserves she had belonged to, as well as family and friends. The community grew from there as those commenters recommended it to other people they knew on blogs and listserves, thus the diversity.

For example- I always assumed Glenn Reynolds knew the hostess from a law professor email listserve. I thought Chip Ahoy may have been a cooking list serve, Palladian from an art listserve, Freeman I thought may have been a college aquaintance of one of the children, Ruth Anne Adams from some sort of law listserve or University list-serve since she was an alumnus of the Madison law school. Ritmo I figured came from a liberal blog comment community that may have had some interactions with TOP. Synova I thought might have come from a writing listserve.

Then later, as the blog got more and more hits, more people came from Instapundit and from other blogs. Is that how it grew and developed?

ndspinelli said...

I came from a sexual predator listserve. Trooper came from a cross dresser listserve. Titus came from a breastfeeding listserve. El Pollo from a puns anonymous listserve. Michael Haz a Harley listserve. We can continue later.

Rabel said...

We were drawn to highly intelligent open-minded critical-thinking country-loving politically moderate American with a complex sense of humor and an extraordinary talent for reading, thinking, and writing.

That's mostly true, although there were a couple of exceptions to the open-mindedness, but she also had a mean streak which was fun to watch when it was turned against a target most of us disapproved of. Amanda Marcotte comes to mind.

Then it got the better of her and here we are.

Michael Haz said...

It was more random than that Sydney. More happenstance than anything. The advent of Twitter caused the commenter population to expand more rapidly because of the ease of linking articles, topics, etc.

What has become more evident these past few weeks is the depth of talent and interests among the commenter group. Having a free- range blog like this with multiple topic authors makes possible such a wide array of interesting threads, in contrast to a blog on which people comment about what may be of interest to one person.

Freeman Hunt said...

Freeman I thought may have been a college acquaintance of one of the children

No. Nearly a decade ago I started reading after finding it through Instapundit.

Freeman Hunt said...

I would venture to guess that most commenters found their way to Althouse from Instapundit. That's just a guess.

Paddy O said...

I found Althouse through Instapundit too.

I think Althouse's diversity of topics gave something for a wide variety of people to comment on.

This is a great question, by the way, both for curiosity and to see how this present blog could bring in the same sorts of people.

Sydney said...

I found it via Instapundit, too. I assume most people like me did as well, but some of you seem to have some connections outside the Althouse blog comments. Do some of you comment at other blogs, too?

john said...

I think I found Althouse through excitable Andy.

chickelit said...

I came to Althouse via Instapundit. I think Meade's the only one who didn't.

Do some of you comment at other blogs, too?

I used to comment at Althouse, but now it's mostly here and at Trooper York.

Anonymous said...

I read Instapundit's links to Althouse for years before getting involved in the comments a year or so ago.

Was Althouse always so "cruelly neutral"?

Michael Haz said...

Ditto Insty.

I read probably too many other blogs, but comment only here, Trooper York's, Legal Insurrection, Ace of Spades, AdventureRider, Motorcycle Daily and The Truth About Cars.

My blog No Bad Days is still up although I suspended posting a while ago because I was out of ideas and didn't want it to become imitative. I'm considering re-starting it because of a number of messages from people who found it and suggested that I do so.

Anonymous said...

When I was a kid, seeing old maps, pictures of dinosaurs, or reading stories about time travel always gave me a chill -- the sense that the world as I knew it was only a thin, thin slice of a much bigger picture, that things had been much different in the past and would be much different in the future.

deborah said...

The map is from a c. 1982 World Almanac, near as I can remember.

Paddy, are you dressed for a Christmas pageant?

edutcher said...

Paddy O said...

I found Althouse through Instapundit too.

Everybody found TOP through Insta, that's why picking a fight with him is so illogical.

Paddy O said...

Deborah, ha!

That's a picture from a pirate themed birthday party I went to a couple years ago. I couldn't afford conventional pirate garb, but I had amassed a variety of old Roman and Celtic gear, so I went as an Irish pirate, like the kind who took St. Patrick captive.

The white hair is supposed to be like the lime celts put in their hair.

Paddy O said...

"Do some of you comment at other blogs, too?"

I comment at some Christian scholars blogs. I used to very occasionally leave a comment elsewhere, like Volokh, and I've seen some familiar names there and assorted other places.

rhhardin said...

There was nothing wrong with picking a fight.

Then slamming the door was the girlfriend part.

Anonymous said...

In the coffeehouse spirit -- yesterday I was listening to the Shawn Colvin song, "Sunny Came Home" and got curious about the lyrics.

"Sunny" was everywhere in the nineties; it won a Grammy back then. It has that up-down, ding-dong refrain:

Days go by I'm hypnotized
I'm walking on a wire
I close my eyes and fly out of my mind
Into the fire


I never thought much about it beyond Sunny hitting some threshold and deciding to get out of a rut. Good for her, I figured.

Turns out it's a murder ballad. Sunny came home, took the kids and burned the house down or blew it up.

Sunny came home with a list of names
She didn't believe in transcendence
"And it's time for a few small repairs", she said
Sunny came home with a vengeance


It's quite a crafted song.

rhhardin said...

Parkenson's disease (Althouse top post) : promoted to your level of incompetence, or work expands to fill the time available?

Use it to win at tennis. Pottermanship.

deborah said...

Ah.

deborah said...

That's a good song, creeley. My fave lines are, 'bring the kids and get a sweater, dry is good and wind is better.'

I heard her say once that she had to break herself of imitating Joni Mitchell.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It's as old as 1945 but the thing is it's odd in making color distinctions between arbitrary continent distinctions within countries.

Russia spans a lot of land mass that should be broken up somewhat into areas (of Siberia) that would go to Turkestan regions. Not that it would matter geopolitically. Russia's become pretty feckless as of late.

Anonymous said...

deborah: Those are good lines! They went over my head before. I thought they were R.E.M sorta-poetry, lyrics that tantalize but have no bottom.

I can hear Joni in Colvin.

Mitchell is a looming figure in the contemporary singer-songwriter tradition. She has had her influence, though apparently not as much as she believes she deserves. Her self-regard is similar to Althouse's.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I totally can't remember where I'd first found out about TOP but yeah it was probably Andrew Sullivan or something like that. I never visit Kos or other liberal sites. Used to visit HuffPo somewhat (not that there'd have been a link). Less lately. But the thing is, I probably didn't find out about TOP from just a blogroll link, rather from a video on BH or NYT or a story where some kerfuffle that happened and was commented about widely in the blogosphere, and went from there. Not surprising, eh?

At first I applauded the feistiness, but then realized it was becoming more of an over-riding end in itself.

The rest is, as they say, history. ;-)

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Sydney's question is an interesting one.

Now that I think about it, it probably was the "picture-gate" kerfuffle, where I thought, "Yeah, she's right. What's wrong with emoting about that?! Someone can make a strong case for what she's saying." If I'd read her before that, it was only cursorily and once or twice.

deborah said...

Here's my fave Joni Mitchell:

Little Green

deborah said...

JonnyCashJoniMitchellLongBlackVeil

Anonymous said...

deborah: Don't know if you know, but "Little Green" is the song Mitchell wrote for the baby she gave away for adoption.

Her daughter figured out Mitchell was her birth mother in the late nineties and reunited with her.

virgil xenophon said...

IIRC I found Althouse sometime late in 2004, probably via stream-of-consciousness link-surfing wherein I go from site-to-site via whatever link looks promising--sort of a one-man "stumble-upon" effort except I like disparate results..

deborah said...

No, I didn't know. I always thought it was about a dad giving up legal rights, or something. Wow, the late nineties.

Anonymous said...

I always thought it was about a dad giving up legal rights, or something.

You got farther than I did. I couldn't figure that one out and chalked it up to stream-of-consciousness. Mitchell explained later that she intentionally obfuscated it.

One of the tiny joys in my life is cracking the code to a song or poem.

Titus said...

I don't know how the hell I found Althouse.

I believe it was through Andrew.

I don't post at other blogs or ready anyone.

I am big Yelper though. Oh I do post on a Drum and Bugle Corps sites.

tits.

deborah said...

See, in the song, I figured that the dad lived out of state 'send her a poem and she's lost to you,' and eventually, 'so you sign the papers in the family name, you're sad and you're sorry, but you're not ashamed, and Little Green has a happy ending.' (That last clause just clicked.)

Sydney said...

What was picture-gate?

test said...

I found Althouse through Instapundit also, but that was so long ago that was likely true for almost everyone who didn't know her personally. I've read her since the early days, but I quit commenting when she first set blogger to require registration to comment, I just didn't the internet/registration systems the
Not that I trust them now, I just care less.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

deborah said...
Here's my fave Joni Mitchell:

Little Green


There are two perfect albums in my experience. Miles Davis's Kind of Blue and Joni Mitchell's Blue. Both albums have a very consistent mood and no track feels like filler. Most other albums, including albums by both these artists, are less consistently good even if they may have a better track or two.

Aridog said...

I can't recall precisely how I found Althouse. Most likely through LGF or one of the derivative sites from there after the Iron Fist whoop-de-do, where Althouse was linked. Or something.

I post on other blogs occasionally, sometimes frequently, like Legal Insurrection or Anne's Opinions [Israeli and a friend] but never read Instapundit until this year...maybe once a week at most.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I almost certainly found Althouse from Andrew Sullivan. When I am bored I will randomly click on the various links in his blog roll. I only consistently read Sullivan and the Corner, although I am warming up to Matt Yglesias and Ta-Nehisi Coates.

deborah said...

Blue is a superb album, but I hardly ever,ever listen to it because, I guess, I know it so well, and it is rather frenetic :)

Anonymous said...

I Discovered Althouse Through a Porn Site: I Was Intrigued By Cruel Naked German Neutrality.

Michael Haz said...

Agree regarding Miles Davis' Blue album. I hesitate to admit this, but I also enjoy some of Chris Botti's CDs, especially his Live With Orchestra and Special Guests CD.

That likely makes me a heretic.

deborah said...

I've heard of Davis' Blue album, but don't know it. Never heard of Botti...tell me a fave of yours so I can look it up.

Michael Haz said...

Anything from his Impressions CD.

deborah said...

Thanks, Haz.

Freeman Hunt said...

I only commented regularly at Althouse. Now I only comment regularly here.

Freeman Hunt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freeman Hunt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freeman Hunt said...

Everybody found TOP through Insta, that's why picking a fight with him is so illogical.

It does not bother Reynolds when people he's been friendly with for years online disagree with him.

test said...

The better story is not how I came to Althouse, but how I came to Instapundit. I don't remember the path exactly as so much has been erased. But I found Virginia Postrel before Sullivan, and from them found myself circling the lesser known blogosphere.

Back then the greatness of the blogosphere was their ability to develop intensive, knowledgeable, and compelling essays on an amazingly wide variety of subjects. And the ethos drove others to publicize them, so worthy efforts from even obscure blogs circulated widely.

Following such a path lead to many destinations, and so many referred to him as their blogfather [a melodramatic humorism even to them, a joke on outsiders] I gave him a shot. And in those days he was a key element to that circulation.

The reflection: things have changed before.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

LGF, yeah! I remember when I used to go to that blog, too!

deborah said...

I might have stopped by LGF once, a zillion years ago.

deborah said...

Sully is the only person I refuse to click on. Will do so only once every couple years.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael Haz said...
I hesitate to admit this, but I also enjoy some of Chris Botti's CDs, especially his Live With Orchestra and Special Guests CD.


I listened to this. I like most trumpet players, even smooth jazz players ;) I have become a traditionalist/old regarding jazz, my favorite period is the 50's up to the mid-60's, all acoustic instruments. After this period I find the influence of rock on jazz to be an almost completely unmitigated disaster, even though I like rock and some jazz influenced rock.

My son, who has become a decent jazz guitarist, has convinced me to listen to Kurt Rosenwinkel. I like some of his work but find some of it too close to John Mclaughlin, to whom I have a strong aversion. If I had known my son had musical talent, I would have bought him a trumpet instead of a guitar.

This is more to my taste in modern jazz guitar.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

deborah said...
Sully is the only person I refuse to click on.


I can understand this. Despite his devotion to Margaret Thatcher he comes across as something of a misogynist on occasions. On the up side he and his team have built the most professional blog on the internets. They cover a pretty broad range of politics, economics and culture and are unstinting in linking to interesting posts by other bloggers. Their taste in music is execrable, the fucking Pet Shop Boys being the nadir.

Anonymous said...

Blue is perfect and it is one of those secret-but-not-too-secret albums which opens a door that most people don't know about.

From what I understand, it spurred Bob Dylan to write the wonderful "Tangled Up in Blue."

For whatever reasons, Mitchell detests Dylan and says so in public.

She's now suffering from a bizarre disease called Morgellons Syndrome, which is an unpleasant skin condition that most medical authorities consider delusional.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

creeley23 said...
For whatever reasons, Mitchell detests Dylan and says so in public.


One of her more endearing qualities ;)

I only found out the other day that she had polio as a child and this created a weakness in her left hand which led her to develop the unusual tunings that she uses on guitar.

Michael Haz said...

Mitchell has detested Dylan since the Woodstock era when she believed he stole some of her compositions and put his name on them.

Plus, she's wired a little tight.

deborah said...

ARM, I'll check those links out tomorrow, and Botti, and Davis' Blue...too many links, too little time.

Okay, I guess I'll check out Sully since he has a team out and you recommend it. It's not the misogyny, it's the Drama Queen idiocy I cannot bear. Besides he went nutz about you-know-who's uterus.

Michael Haz said...

Reasonable - I can understand that. I pretty much detest current country music and greatly prefer roots music including early bluegrass. Bluegrass being the jazz of country music.

deborah said...

I adore bluegrass.

'Night all!

bagoh20 said...

Sydney,

I came from Instapundit too.

BTW, where do you live? I grew up in Butler, PA. Sounds like you're near there.

bagoh20 said...

I'm a former LGF regular too, but he booted me for disagreeing once. Not rudely or anything, just a different opinion. WAD (what a dick)

Aridog said...

Bagoh20 ... I think I mentioned before that when I checked back at LGF for giggles recently, I discovered I was now "suspended". Bad Park Me I presume.

Back in the day of the serial purges, someone monitored other blogs to see who was disloyal. You didn't have to disagree with something on LGF, do it anywhere and you were boot material....right after someone sent a swarm of loyalists to harass you on said other blog(s). Strange days.

bagoh20 said...

"Bad Park Me I presume"

Every time someone reference that it still makes me laugh. Asians mangle English in a hilarious way. I hope they enjoy our reciprocal efforts as much. I wonder if they think our driving sucks too.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

deborah said...
Okay, I guess I'll check out Sully since he has a team out and you recommend it.


I wouldn't rush into that. By US standards he is centrist/left wing in his views, roughly aligning with the Conservative Party in the UK, except on economics, where he has been skeptical of austerity.

deborah said...

Okay, I'll just leave him be.

gn

bagoh20 said...

"he has been skeptical of austerity."

I am too - I don't think it exists.

deborah said...

I think it exists, but it's for the little people.

Freeman Hunt said...

"I only commented regularly at Althouse. Now I only comment regularly here."

Now Althouse is allowing comments on posts besides the albums, so I'll likely be a regular at both places.